[ALL] Do we need help?

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[ALL] Do we need help?

Benedikt Ritter-4
Hi all,

currently I feel really overwhelmed by the stuff I'd like to do at commons
and the little time I can spend for it. Here is an (incomplete) list of the
things I'd like to work on:

- get a new release of the build plugin out of the door for auto creating
README.md and CONTRIBUTING.md
- Work on [VALIDATOR] and get a new release out of the door
- Work on [DBUTILS] and get a new release out of the door
- Push [lang] 3.4 out of the door
- Have a look at [compress] 2.0
- Backport important fixes from [collections] 4.0 to 3.x and create a last
service update
- work on [text]
- help releasing [imaging] 1.0
- Improve docs on how to get involved at commons
- Organize a logo contest for commons
- ... many more

I wonder how you feel about this. I have the feeling that a lot of people
ask us to fix stuff and release components but we don't really catch up
with this. This will give people the feeling that we are slow or we simply
don't care.
Whenever I see someone posting on JIRA "can you please fix this, we need
this in out application" and nobody is reacting, I feel tempted to jump
right in, even if I don't know the component (which adds another entry to
the list above).
I don't see a way how we can improve this. My feeling is, that we need more
committers. But then I have the comments of people I've talked to in my
ear: "to old school", "to difficult to get involved", "to slow development
process", "to unwelcoming community". So what do we do? Do we need help?

I'm excited to hear your thoughts :-)

Best regards,
Benedikt


--
http://people.apache.org/~britter/
http://www.systemoutprintln.de/
http://twitter.com/BenediktRitter
http://github.com/britter
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RE: [ALL] Do we need help?

garydgregory
It feels overwhelming sometimes sure, but for me I just realize that this is just a self inflicted feeling. We are all volunteers here with no contractual or "hard" expectations. We could do better at managing expectations for certain and recruiting new blood, yes. But that takes time away from fun development tasks... I usually ask for patches as soon as someone asks for a fix or feature. At least that should make it more obvious to users and the community that you get out of Commons what you put in to some extent. 

Gary 

<div>-------- Original message --------</div><div>From: Benedikt Ritter <[hidden email]> </div><div>Date:11/29/2014  05:53  (GMT-05:00) </div><div>To: Commons Developers List <[hidden email]> </div><div>Cc:  </div><div>Subject: [ALL] Do we need help? </div><div>
</div>Hi all,

currently I feel really overwhelmed by the stuff I'd like to do at commons
and the little time I can spend for it. Here is an (incomplete) list of the
things I'd like to work on:

- get a new release of the build plugin out of the door for auto creating
README.md and CONTRIBUTING.md
- Work on [VALIDATOR] and get a new release out of the door
- Work on [DBUTILS] and get a new release out of the door
- Push [lang] 3.4 out of the door
- Have a look at [compress] 2.0
- Backport important fixes from [collections] 4.0 to 3.x and create a last
service update
- work on [text]
- help releasing [imaging] 1.0
- Improve docs on how to get involved at commons
- Organize a logo contest for commons
- ... many more

I wonder how you feel about this. I have the feeling that a lot of people
ask us to fix stuff and release components but we don't really catch up
with this. This will give people the feeling that we are slow or we simply
don't care.
Whenever I see someone posting on JIRA "can you please fix this, we need
this in out application" and nobody is reacting, I feel tempted to jump
right in, even if I don't know the component (which adds another entry to
the list above).
I don't see a way how we can improve this. My feeling is, that we need more
committers. But then I have the comments of people I've talked to in my
ear: "to old school", "to difficult to get involved", "to slow development
process", "to unwelcoming community". So what do we do? Do we need help?

I'm excited to hear your thoughts :-)

Best regards,
Benedikt


--
http://people.apache.org/~britter/
http://www.systemoutprintln.de/
http://twitter.com/BenediktRitter
http://github.com/britter
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Re: [ALL] Do we need help?

dlmarion

My 2 cents as an outsider, for what it's worth. I have contributed code to VFS and we use VFS in Accumulo. I and several others have asked for a 2.1 release, or at least a plan/roadmap so that we know what has to happen before a release can occur. I even offered to help in any way possible[1]. The answer I received was that a release manager was assigned, but no other information. Since then I have seen a bunch of other commons projects being released. I figure that maybe they are dependencies and need to be released first before a VFS release.

Personally, I would like to remove the VFS objects from Accumulo when VFS 2.1 is released. I know that we are also running into VFS-487, which I spent some time updating the patch and verifying the tests work. I would like to update the HDFS dependency to the latest before the 2.1 release (VFS-530), but I don't know when that is going to happen. I would also like to take advantage of some of the fixes in 2.1, like VFS-500.

I understand this is a volunteer organization and everyone is busy. However, from my perspective, you have turned down an offer to help. FWIW, I have thought about taking VFS 2.1-SNAPSHOT, applying the patches I want, and creating a release for use on my project (not Accumulo).

[1] http://mail-archives.apache.org/mod_mbox/commons-dev/201406.mbox/%3C423905266.3540581.1402347208157.JavaMail.root@...%3E 

- Dave


----- Original Message -----

From: "Gary Gregory" <[hidden email]>
To: "Commons Developers List" <[hidden email]>
Sent: Saturday, November 29, 2014 7:42:35 AM
Subject: RE: [ALL] Do we need help?

It feels overwhelming sometimes sure, but for me I just realize that this is just a self inflicted feeling. We are all volunteers here with no contractual or "hard" expectations. We could do better at managing expectations for certain and recruiting new blood, yes. But that takes time away from fun development tasks... I usually ask for patches as soon as someone asks for a fix or feature. At least that should make it more obvious to users and the community that you get out of Commons what you put in to some extent.

Gary

<div>-------- Original message --------</div><div>From: Benedikt Ritter <[hidden email]> </div><div>Date:11/29/2014 05:53 (GMT-05:00) </div><div>To: Commons Developers List <[hidden email]> </div><div>Cc: </div><div>Subject: [ALL] Do we need help? </div><div>
</div>Hi all,

currently I feel really overwhelmed by the stuff I'd like to do at commons
and the little time I can spend for it. Here is an (incomplete) list of the
things I'd like to work on:

- get a new release of the build plugin out of the door for auto creating
README.md and CONTRIBUTING.md
- Work on [VALIDATOR] and get a new release out of the door
- Work on [DBUTILS] and get a new release out of the door
- Push [lang] 3.4 out of the door
- Have a look at [compress] 2.0
- Backport important fixes from [collections] 4.0 to 3.x and create a last
service update
- work on [text]
- help releasing [imaging] 1.0
- Improve docs on how to get involved at commons
- Organize a logo contest for commons
- ... many more

I wonder how you feel about this. I have the feeling that a lot of people
ask us to fix stuff and release components but we don't really catch up
with this. This will give people the feeling that we are slow or we simply
don't care.
Whenever I see someone posting on JIRA "can you please fix this, we need
this in out application" and nobody is reacting, I feel tempted to jump
right in, even if I don't know the component (which adds another entry to
the list above).
I don't see a way how we can improve this. My feeling is, that we need more
committers. But then I have the comments of people I've talked to in my
ear: "to old school", "to difficult to get involved", "to slow development
process", "to unwelcoming community". So what do we do? Do we need help?

I'm excited to hear your thoughts :-)

Best regards,
Benedikt


--
http://people.apache.org/~britter/ 
http://www.systemoutprintln.de/ 
http://twitter.com/BenediktRitter 
http://github.com/britter 

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Re: [ALL] Do we need help?

Thomas Neidhart
In reply to this post by Benedikt Ritter-4
On 11/29/2014 11:53 AM, Benedikt Ritter wrote:
> Hi all,
>
> currently I feel really overwhelmed by the stuff I'd like to do at commons
> and the little time I can spend for it. Here is an (incomplete) list of the
> things I'd like to work on:

Hi Benedikt,

> - get a new release of the build plugin out of the door for auto creating
> README.md and CONTRIBUTING.md
> - Work on [VALIDATOR] and get a new release out of the door
> - Work on [DBUTILS] and get a new release out of the door
> - Push [lang] 3.4 out of the door
> - Have a look at [compress] 2.0
> - Backport important fixes from [collections] 4.0 to 3.x and create a last
> service update
> - work on [text]
> - help releasing [imaging] 1.0
> - Improve docs on how to get involved at commons
> - Organize a logo contest for commons
> - ... many more

this sounds like you set your goals too high and are frustrated that you
don't get all the things done. I guess this is a common scheme for
ambitious/passionate people. Try to set more realistic goals and finish
them before doing other / more things. Then you will get the positive
feedback of achieving something and everything will be better.

> I wonder how you feel about this. I have the feeling that a lot of people
> ask us to fix stuff and release components but we don't really catch up
> with this. This will give people the feeling that we are slow or we simply
> don't care.
> Whenever I see someone posting on JIRA "can you please fix this, we need
> this in out application" and nobody is reacting, I feel tempted to jump
> right in, even if I don't know the component (which adds another entry to
> the list above).
> I don't see a way how we can improve this. My feeling is, that we need more
> committers. But then I have the comments of people I've talked to in my
> ear: "to old school", "to difficult to get involved", "to slow development
> process", "to unwelcoming community". So what do we do? Do we need help?
>
> I'm excited to hear your thoughts :-)

yeah, this is a general problem of commons imho. There are too many
components for a too small community as most of the original committers
have long left.

The only way out is to do what we tried a couple of months ago: move not
maintained components to dormant, and keep the others alive with the
existing people.

Just one example: jelly is a nice thing and actually used within jenkins
as the backbone html generator. But it is re-packaged within jenkins
custom bugfixes as the last jelly release (1.0) was in 2005.

Similar things apply for el or primitives.

These components are long dead and there are very good alternatives
available, so they should be abandoned. Cut off the dead branches to
keep the tree alive.

Thomas

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Re: [ALL] Do we need help?

James Sawle
Hi all,
Two things from me, a relatively new member of the community.

I think much more effort needs to be on pushing things through code-review and to completion. There are many issues in LANG that have been awaiting review for well over a year or two. This means the commiters are no longer around to justify their decisions, and new contributors feel they are pushed aside whilst awaiting feedback.

Secondly, there are too many long discussions around various issues, leading to either flame wars on decisions or no action being taken at all. The project leads should take the comments made and make a decision on what is to be done after a sensible set of comments have been made. This would be hard with how few people run the project, but maybe this would help rebalance and focus the project.

Would be willing to discuss this further

Sent from my iPhone

> On 29 Nov 2014, at 16:33, Thomas Neidhart <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
>> On 11/29/2014 11:53 AM, Benedikt Ritter wrote:
>> Hi all,
>>
>> currently I feel really overwhelmed by the stuff I'd like to do at commons
>> and the little time I can spend for it. Here is an (incomplete) list of the
>> things I'd like to work on:
>
> Hi Benedikt,
>
>> - get a new release of the build plugin out of the door for auto creating
>> README.md and CONTRIBUTING.md
>> - Work on [VALIDATOR] and get a new release out of the door
>> - Work on [DBUTILS] and get a new release out of the door
>> - Push [lang] 3.4 out of the door
>> - Have a look at [compress] 2.0
>> - Backport important fixes from [collections] 4.0 to 3.x and create a last
>> service update
>> - work on [text]
>> - help releasing [imaging] 1.0
>> - Improve docs on how to get involved at commons
>> - Organize a logo contest for commons
>> - ... many more
>
> this sounds like you set your goals too high and are frustrated that you
> don't get all the things done. I guess this is a common scheme for
> ambitious/passionate people. Try to set more realistic goals and finish
> them before doing other / more things. Then you will get the positive
> feedback of achieving something and everything will be better.
>
>> I wonder how you feel about this. I have the feeling that a lot of people
>> ask us to fix stuff and release components but we don't really catch up
>> with this. This will give people the feeling that we are slow or we simply
>> don't care.
>> Whenever I see someone posting on JIRA "can you please fix this, we need
>> this in out application" and nobody is reacting, I feel tempted to jump
>> right in, even if I don't know the component (which adds another entry to
>> the list above).
>> I don't see a way how we can improve this. My feeling is, that we need more
>> committers. But then I have the comments of people I've talked to in my
>> ear: "to old school", "to difficult to get involved", "to slow development
>> process", "to unwelcoming community". So what do we do? Do we need help?
>>
>> I'm excited to hear your thoughts :-)
>
> yeah, this is a general problem of commons imho. There are too many
> components for a too small community as most of the original committers
> have long left.
>
> The only way out is to do what we tried a couple of months ago: move not
> maintained components to dormant, and keep the others alive with the
> existing people.
>
> Just one example: jelly is a nice thing and actually used within jenkins
> as the backbone html generator. But it is re-packaged within jenkins
> custom bugfixes as the last jelly release (1.0) was in 2005.
>
> Similar things apply for el or primitives.
>
> These components are long dead and there are very good alternatives
> available, so they should be abandoned. Cut off the dead branches to
> keep the tree alive.
>
> Thomas
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: [hidden email]
> For additional commands, e-mail: [hidden email]
>

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Re: [ALL] Do we need help?

Bernd Eckenfels
In reply to this post by dlmarion
Hello,

I dont think we have a release manager for VFS, but I am still working
on Bugs. If you have a patch for a Bug which affects you, please upload
it to Jira. We can need all helps to prune them down. Right now we have
3 blockers open. 2 in the area of FTP which I do not have much
experience with and one memory leaks where I am working on.

Once those are closed or downgraded we can try a release. However last
time I tried to start a discussion not much help was received. I
suspect this might chnage when the first RC is put out and all the
negative votes come in (there is a large Clirr report and while I think
most of it is acceptable, I really think we need to talk about it).

This is where Garys question comes in. Yes we might be a volunteering
organisation, but certain things bottleneck on experienced people in
the PMC. And I dont really know a way around this.

Gruss
Bernd

 Am Sat, 29 Nov
2014 15:27:02 +0000 (UTC) schrieb [hidden email]:

>
> My 2 cents as an outsider, for what it's worth. I have contributed
> code to VFS and we use VFS in Accumulo. I and several others have
> asked for a 2.1 release, or at least a plan/roadmap so that we know
> what has to happen before a release can occur. I even offered to help
> in any way possible[1]. The answer I received was that a release
> manager was assigned, but no other information. Since then I have
> seen a bunch of other commons projects being released. I figure that
> maybe they are dependencies and need to be released first before a
> VFS release.
>
> Personally, I would like to remove the VFS objects from Accumulo when
> VFS 2.1 is released. I know that we are also running into VFS-487,
> which I spent some time updating the patch and verifying the tests
> work. I would like to update the HDFS dependency to the latest before
> the 2.1 release (VFS-530), but I don't know when that is going to
> happen. I would also like to take advantage of some of the fixes in
> 2.1, like VFS-500.
>
> I understand this is a volunteer organization and everyone is busy.
> However, from my perspective, you have turned down an offer to help.
> FWIW, I have thought about taking VFS 2.1-SNAPSHOT, applying the
> patches I want, and creating a release for use on my project (not
> Accumulo).
>
> [1]
> http://mail-archives.apache.org/mod_mbox/commons-dev/201406.mbox/%3C423905266.3540581.1402347208157.JavaMail.root@...%3E 
>
> - Dave
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
>
> From: "Gary Gregory" <[hidden email]>
> To: "Commons Developers List" <[hidden email]>
> Sent: Saturday, November 29, 2014 7:42:35 AM
> Subject: RE: [ALL] Do we need help?
>
> It feels overwhelming sometimes sure, but for me I just realize that
> this is just a self inflicted feeling. We are all volunteers here
> with no contractual or "hard" expectations. We could do better at
> managing expectations for certain and recruiting new blood, yes. But
> that takes time away from fun development tasks... I usually ask for
> patches as soon as someone asks for a fix or feature. At least that
> should make it more obvious to users and the community that you get
> out of Commons what you put in to some extent.
>
> Gary
>
> <div>-------- Original message --------</div><div>From: Benedikt
> Ritter <[hidden email]> </div><div>Date:11/29/2014 05:53
> (GMT-05:00) </div><div>To: Commons Developers List
> <[hidden email]> </div><div>Cc: </div><div>Subject: [ALL] Do
> we need help? </div><div> </div>Hi all,
>
> currently I feel really overwhelmed by the stuff I'd like to do at
> commons and the little time I can spend for it. Here is an
> (incomplete) list of the things I'd like to work on:
>
> - get a new release of the build plugin out of the door for auto
> creating README.md and CONTRIBUTING.md
> - Work on [VALIDATOR] and get a new release out of the door
> - Work on [DBUTILS] and get a new release out of the door
> - Push [lang] 3.4 out of the door
> - Have a look at [compress] 2.0
> - Backport important fixes from [collections] 4.0 to 3.x and create a
> last service update
> - work on [text]
> - help releasing [imaging] 1.0
> - Improve docs on how to get involved at commons
> - Organize a logo contest for commons
> - ... many more
>
> I wonder how you feel about this. I have the feeling that a lot of
> people ask us to fix stuff and release components but we don't really
> catch up with this. This will give people the feeling that we are
> slow or we simply don't care.
> Whenever I see someone posting on JIRA "can you please fix this, we
> need this in out application" and nobody is reacting, I feel tempted
> to jump right in, even if I don't know the component (which adds
> another entry to the list above).
> I don't see a way how we can improve this. My feeling is, that we
> need more committers. But then I have the comments of people I've
> talked to in my ear: "to old school", "to difficult to get involved",
> "to slow development process", "to unwelcoming community". So what do
> we do? Do we need help?
>
> I'm excited to hear your thoughts :-)
>
> Best regards,
> Benedikt
>
>


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Re: [ALL] Do we need help?

Mark Thomas
In reply to this post by James Sawle
On 29/11/2014 18:30, James Sawle wrote:
> Hi all, Two things from me, a relatively new member of the
> community.

<snip/>

> Secondly, there are too many long discussions around various issues,
> leading to either flame wars on decisions or no action being taken at
> all. The project leads should take the comments made and make a
> decision on what is to be done after a sensible set of comments have
> been made. This would be hard with how few people run the project,
> but maybe this would help rebalance and focus the project.

Apache projects don't have project leads. Development at Apache is
consensus based. Yes it takes longer. Yes it takes more effort.

Mark

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Re: [ALL] Do we need help?

Bruno P. Kinoshita
In reply to this post by Thomas Neidhart
Hi Thomas!
I use Jelly almost every week in Jenkins plug-ins. Talked about the forked repo they have in the project, and even told them I could spend some hours every week to fix the necessary issues. 
Even though it is possible to use Groovy in Jenkins views too now, there are so many existing plug-ins (that are used as basis for new plug-ins) that I find it very hard to see jelly removed from Jenkins.
Would anyone be interested and have time to push a new release ? I could check what needed to be done in [jelly] and either update or add new issues.
Bruno
 
      From: Thomas Neidhart <[hidden email]>
 To: Commons Developers List <[hidden email]>
 Sent: Saturday, November 29, 2014 2:31 PM
 Subject: Re: [ALL] Do we need help?
   
On 11/29/2014 11:53 AM, Benedikt Ritter wrote:
> Hi all,
>
> currently I feel really overwhelmed by the stuff I'd like to do at commons
> and the little time I can spend for it. Here is an (incomplete) list of the
> things I'd like to work on:

Hi Benedikt,

> - get a new release of the build plugin out of the door for auto creating
> README.md and CONTRIBUTING.md
> - Work on [VALIDATOR] and get a new release out of the door
> - Work on [DBUTILS] and get a new release out of the door
> - Push [lang] 3.4 out of the door
> - Have a look at [compress] 2.0
> - Backport important fixes from [collections] 4.0 to 3.x and create a last
> service update
> - work on [text]
> - help releasing [imaging] 1.0
> - Improve docs on how to get involved at commons
> - Organize a logo contest for commons
> - ... many more

this sounds like you set your goals too high and are frustrated that you
don't get all the things done. I guess this is a common scheme for
ambitious/passionate people. Try to set more realistic goals and finish
them before doing other / more things. Then you will get the positive
feedback of achieving something and everything will be better.



> I wonder how you feel about this. I have the feeling that a lot of people
> ask us to fix stuff and release components but we don't really catch up
> with this. This will give people the feeling that we are slow or we simply
> don't care.
> Whenever I see someone posting on JIRA "can you please fix this, we need
> this in out application" and nobody is reacting, I feel tempted to jump
> right in, even if I don't know the component (which adds another entry to
> the list above).
> I don't see a way how we can improve this. My feeling is, that we need more
> committers. But then I have the comments of people I've talked to in my
> ear: "to old school", "to difficult to get involved", "to slow development
> process", "to unwelcoming community". So what do we do? Do we need help?
>
> I'm excited to hear your thoughts :-)

yeah, this is a general problem of commons imho. There are too many
components for a too small community as most of the original committers
have long left.

The only way out is to do what we tried a couple of months ago: move not
maintained components to dormant, and keep the others alive with the
existing people.

Just one example: jelly is a nice thing and actually used within jenkins
as the backbone html generator. But it is re-packaged within jenkins
custom bugfixes as the last jelly release (1.0) was in 2005.

Similar things apply for el or primitives.

These components are long dead and there are very good alternatives
available, so they should be abandoned. Cut off the dead branches to
keep the tree alive.

Thomas

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RE: [ALL] Do we need help?

dlmarion
In reply to this post by Bernd Eckenfels

 Sorry, I thought a RM had been assigned[1]. I don't think I have any
patches for open tickets, the tickets that I am interested in (487,500,530)
already have patches waiting to be applied. Additionally, if there are open
issues w/r/t HDFS integration, then I can address them as well. The only
HDFS related issues I see at this time are 523 and 530, both of which have
patches. I can update 530 with a more recent version of HDFS before a
release of VFS.

I don't remember seeing a previous discussion regarding a 2.1 release. It's
very possible I missed it or it was filtered. Please let me know how I can
help.

[1]
http://mail-archives.apache.org/mod_mbox/commons-dev/201407.mbox/%3CCACZkXPz
M5a3PEqk8Yq6TJdued6bNLd_286xKeEqAeuNMv6Svyg%40mail.gmail.com%3E


-----Original Message-----
From: Bernd Eckenfels [mailto:[hidden email]]
Sent: Saturday, November 29, 2014 3:21 PM
To: [hidden email]
Cc: Commons Developers List
Subject: Re: [ALL] Do we need help?

Hello,

I dont think we have a release manager for VFS, but I am still working on
Bugs. If you have a patch for a Bug which affects you, please upload it to
Jira. We can need all helps to prune them down. Right now we have
3 blockers open. 2 in the area of FTP which I do not have much experience
with and one memory leaks where I am working on.

Once those are closed or downgraded we can try a release. However last time
I tried to start a discussion not much help was received. I suspect this
might chnage when the first RC is put out and all the negative votes come in
(there is a large Clirr report and while I think most of it is acceptable, I
really think we need to talk about it).

This is where Garys question comes in. Yes we might be a volunteering
organisation, but certain things bottleneck on experienced people in the
PMC. And I dont really know a way around this.

Gruss
Bernd

 Am Sat, 29 Nov
2014 15:27:02 +0000 (UTC) schrieb [hidden email]:

>
> My 2 cents as an outsider, for what it's worth. I have contributed
> code to VFS and we use VFS in Accumulo. I and several others have
> asked for a 2.1 release, or at least a plan/roadmap so that we know
> what has to happen before a release can occur. I even offered to help
> in any way possible[1]. The answer I received was that a release
> manager was assigned, but no other information. Since then I have seen
> a bunch of other commons projects being released. I figure that maybe
> they are dependencies and need to be released first before a VFS
> release.
>
> Personally, I would like to remove the VFS objects from Accumulo when
> VFS 2.1 is released. I know that we are also running into VFS-487,
> which I spent some time updating the patch and verifying the tests
> work. I would like to update the HDFS dependency to the latest before
> the 2.1 release (VFS-530), but I don't know when that is going to
> happen. I would also like to take advantage of some of the fixes in
> 2.1, like VFS-500.
>
> I understand this is a volunteer organization and everyone is busy.
> However, from my perspective, you have turned down an offer to help.
> FWIW, I have thought about taking VFS 2.1-SNAPSHOT, applying the
> patches I want, and creating a release for use on my project (not
> Accumulo).
>
> [1]
> http://mail-archives.apache.org/mod_mbox/commons-dev/201406.mbox/%3C42
> [hidden email]%3E
>
> - Dave
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
>
> From: "Gary Gregory" <[hidden email]>
> To: "Commons Developers List" <[hidden email]>
> Sent: Saturday, November 29, 2014 7:42:35 AM
> Subject: RE: [ALL] Do we need help?
>
> It feels overwhelming sometimes sure, but for me I just realize that
> this is just a self inflicted feeling. We are all volunteers here with
> no contractual or "hard" expectations. We could do better at managing
> expectations for certain and recruiting new blood, yes. But that takes
> time away from fun development tasks... I usually ask for patches as
> soon as someone asks for a fix or feature. At least that should make
> it more obvious to users and the community that you get out of Commons
> what you put in to some extent.
>
> Gary
>
> <div>-------- Original message --------</div><div>From: Benedikt
> Ritter <[hidden email]> </div><div>Date:11/29/2014 05:53
> (GMT-05:00) </div><div>To: Commons Developers List
> <[hidden email]> </div><div>Cc: </div><div>Subject: [ALL] Do
> we need help? </div><div> </div>Hi all,
>
> currently I feel really overwhelmed by the stuff I'd like to do at
> commons and the little time I can spend for it. Here is an
> (incomplete) list of the things I'd like to work on:
>
> - get a new release of the build plugin out of the door for auto
> creating README.md and CONTRIBUTING.md
> - Work on [VALIDATOR] and get a new release out of the door
> - Work on [DBUTILS] and get a new release out of the door
> - Push [lang] 3.4 out of the door
> - Have a look at [compress] 2.0
> - Backport important fixes from [collections] 4.0 to 3.x and create a
> last service update
> - work on [text]
> - help releasing [imaging] 1.0
> - Improve docs on how to get involved at commons
> - Organize a logo contest for commons
> - ... many more
>
> I wonder how you feel about this. I have the feeling that a lot of
> people ask us to fix stuff and release components but we don't really
> catch up with this. This will give people the feeling that we are slow
> or we simply don't care.
> Whenever I see someone posting on JIRA "can you please fix this, we
> need this in out application" and nobody is reacting, I feel tempted
> to jump right in, even if I don't know the component (which adds
> another entry to the list above).
> I don't see a way how we can improve this. My feeling is, that we need
> more committers. But then I have the comments of people I've talked to
> in my ear: "to old school", "to difficult to get involved", "to slow
> development process", "to unwelcoming community". So what do we do? Do
> we need help?
>
> I'm excited to hear your thoughts :-)
>
> Best regards,
> Benedikt
>
>



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Re: [ALL] Do we need help?

Ralph Goers
In reply to this post by dlmarion
I acted as release manager for 2.0.  I did that because at the time I had a need for Commons VFS, I had a need to fix a bunch of stuff that didn’t work in 1.0, and I had the necessary privileges to do it.  Since that time I have been focused on Log4j 2 almost completely with what little time I have.  I have seen others commit fixes and enhancements and like you, I have been surprised that no one has bothered to perform a release. It should have happened a long time ago.  

One challenge to releasing VFS is that unlike most Commons projects, it is a multi-module project and it uses the Maven release plugin to perform a release. While this makes things a bit more complicated it still isn’t that hard to do. Unfortunately, I don’t believe I documented the release process but it should be similar to http://wiki.apache.org/logging/Log4j2ReleaseGuide <http://wiki.apache.org/logging/Log4j2ReleaseGuide>, since I based the Log4j build and release process after VFS.

Ralph


> On Nov 29, 2014, at 8:27 AM, [hidden email] wrote:
>
>
> My 2 cents as an outsider, for what it's worth. I have contributed code to VFS and we use VFS in Accumulo. I and several others have asked for a 2.1 release, or at least a plan/roadmap so that we know what has to happen before a release can occur. I even offered to help in any way possible[1]. The answer I received was that a release manager was assigned, but no other information. Since then I have seen a bunch of other commons projects being released. I figure that maybe they are dependencies and need to be released first before a VFS release.
>
> Personally, I would like to remove the VFS objects from Accumulo when VFS 2.1 is released. I know that we are also running into VFS-487, which I spent some time updating the patch and verifying the tests work. I would like to update the HDFS dependency to the latest before the 2.1 release (VFS-530), but I don't know when that is going to happen. I would also like to take advantage of some of the fixes in 2.1, like VFS-500.
>
> I understand this is a volunteer organization and everyone is busy. However, from my perspective, you have turned down an offer to help. FWIW, I have thought about taking VFS 2.1-SNAPSHOT, applying the patches I want, and creating a release for use on my project (not Accumulo).
>
> [1] http://mail-archives.apache.org/mod_mbox/commons-dev/201406.mbox/%3C423905266.3540581.1402347208157.JavaMail.root@...%3E 
>
> - Dave
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
>
> From: "Gary Gregory" <[hidden email]>
> To: "Commons Developers List" <[hidden email]>
> Sent: Saturday, November 29, 2014 7:42:35 AM
> Subject: RE: [ALL] Do we need help?
>
> It feels overwhelming sometimes sure, but for me I just realize that this is just a self inflicted feeling. We are all volunteers here with no contractual or "hard" expectations. We could do better at managing expectations for certain and recruiting new blood, yes. But that takes time away from fun development tasks... I usually ask for patches as soon as someone asks for a fix or feature. At least that should make it more obvious to users and the community that you get out of Commons what you put in to some extent.
>
> Gary
>
> <div>-------- Original message --------</div><div>From: Benedikt Ritter <[hidden email]> </div><div>Date:11/29/2014 05:53 (GMT-05:00) </div><div>To: Commons Developers List <[hidden email]> </div><div>Cc: </div><div>Subject: [ALL] Do we need help? </div><div>
> </div>Hi all,
>
> currently I feel really overwhelmed by the stuff I'd like to do at commons
> and the little time I can spend for it. Here is an (incomplete) list of the
> things I'd like to work on:
>
> - get a new release of the build plugin out of the door for auto creating
> README.md and CONTRIBUTING.md
> - Work on [VALIDATOR] and get a new release out of the door
> - Work on [DBUTILS] and get a new release out of the door
> - Push [lang] 3.4 out of the door
> - Have a look at [compress] 2.0
> - Backport important fixes from [collections] 4.0 to 3.x and create a last
> service update
> - work on [text]
> - help releasing [imaging] 1.0
> - Improve docs on how to get involved at commons
> - Organize a logo contest for commons
> - ... many more
>
> I wonder how you feel about this. I have the feeling that a lot of people
> ask us to fix stuff and release components but we don't really catch up
> with this. This will give people the feeling that we are slow or we simply
> don't care.
> Whenever I see someone posting on JIRA "can you please fix this, we need
> this in out application" and nobody is reacting, I feel tempted to jump
> right in, even if I don't know the component (which adds another entry to
> the list above).
> I don't see a way how we can improve this. My feeling is, that we need more
> committers. But then I have the comments of people I've talked to in my
> ear: "to old school", "to difficult to get involved", "to slow development
> process", "to unwelcoming community". So what do we do? Do we need help?
>
> I'm excited to hear your thoughts :-)
>
> Best regards,
> Benedikt
>
>
> --
> http://people.apache.org/~britter/ 
> http://www.systemoutprintln.de/ 
> http://twitter.com/BenediktRitter 
> http://github.com/britter 
>

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Re: [ALL] Do we need help?

Bernd Eckenfels
In reply to this post by dlmarion
Hello,

well I dont think we need to dig into the past, no matter if a RM is
assigned or not, a release will happen when people get around to do it.
And since the people who can do it are already overloaded it can get
tricky.

And I think the biggest roadblock is the large number of changes which
have been implemented and which need to be ironed out in terms of
compatibility. (Clirr Report especially).

Greetings
Bernd

PS: in VFS-523 there are some open questions. I would like to go with
the removal. However I think with updated hdfs libraries the windows
tests do not work anymore, which makes it hard for me to test.


 Am Sat, 29 Nov 2014 21:36:35
-0500 schrieb <[hidden email]>:

>
>  Sorry, I thought a RM had been assigned[1]. I don't think I have any
> patches for open tickets, the tickets that I am interested in
> (487,500,530) already have patches waiting to be applied.
> Additionally, if there are open issues w/r/t HDFS integration, then I
> can address them as well. The only HDFS related issues I see at this
> time are 523 and 530, both of which have patches. I can update 530
> with a more recent version of HDFS before a release of VFS.
>
> I don't remember seeing a previous discussion regarding a 2.1
> release. It's very possible I missed it or it was filtered. Please
> let me know how I can help.
>
> [1]
> http://mail-archives.apache.org/mod_mbox/commons-dev/201407.mbox/%3CCACZkXPz
> M5a3PEqk8Yq6TJdued6bNLd_286xKeEqAeuNMv6Svyg%40mail.gmail.com%3E
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Bernd Eckenfels [mailto:[hidden email]]
> Sent: Saturday, November 29, 2014 3:21 PM
> To: [hidden email]
> Cc: Commons Developers List
> Subject: Re: [ALL] Do we need help?
>
> Hello,
>
> I dont think we have a release manager for VFS, but I am still
> working on Bugs. If you have a patch for a Bug which affects you,
> please upload it to Jira. We can need all helps to prune them down.
> Right now we have 3 blockers open. 2 in the area of FTP which I do
> not have much experience with and one memory leaks where I am working
> on.
>
> Once those are closed or downgraded we can try a release. However
> last time I tried to start a discussion not much help was received. I
> suspect this might chnage when the first RC is put out and all the
> negative votes come in (there is a large Clirr report and while I
> think most of it is acceptable, I really think we need to talk about
> it).
>
> This is where Garys question comes in. Yes we might be a volunteering
> organisation, but certain things bottleneck on experienced people in
> the PMC. And I dont really know a way around this.
>
> Gruss
> Bernd
>
>  Am Sat, 29 Nov
> 2014 15:27:02 +0000 (UTC) schrieb [hidden email]:
>
> >
> > My 2 cents as an outsider, for what it's worth. I have contributed
> > code to VFS and we use VFS in Accumulo. I and several others have
> > asked for a 2.1 release, or at least a plan/roadmap so that we know
> > what has to happen before a release can occur. I even offered to
> > help in any way possible[1]. The answer I received was that a
> > release manager was assigned, but no other information. Since then
> > I have seen a bunch of other commons projects being released. I
> > figure that maybe they are dependencies and need to be released
> > first before a VFS release.
> >
> > Personally, I would like to remove the VFS objects from Accumulo
> > when VFS 2.1 is released. I know that we are also running into
> > VFS-487, which I spent some time updating the patch and verifying
> > the tests work. I would like to update the HDFS dependency to the
> > latest before the 2.1 release (VFS-530), but I don't know when that
> > is going to happen. I would also like to take advantage of some of
> > the fixes in 2.1, like VFS-500.
> >
> > I understand this is a volunteer organization and everyone is busy.
> > However, from my perspective, you have turned down an offer to help.
> > FWIW, I have thought about taking VFS 2.1-SNAPSHOT, applying the
> > patches I want, and creating a release for use on my project (not
> > Accumulo).
> >
> > [1]
> > http://mail-archives.apache.org/mod_mbox/commons-dev/201406.mbox/%3C42
> > [hidden email]%3E
> >
> > - Dave
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> >
> > From: "Gary Gregory" <[hidden email]>
> > To: "Commons Developers List" <[hidden email]>
> > Sent: Saturday, November 29, 2014 7:42:35 AM
> > Subject: RE: [ALL] Do we need help?
> >
> > It feels overwhelming sometimes sure, but for me I just realize
> > that this is just a self inflicted feeling. We are all volunteers
> > here with no contractual or "hard" expectations. We could do better
> > at managing expectations for certain and recruiting new blood, yes.
> > But that takes time away from fun development tasks... I usually
> > ask for patches as soon as someone asks for a fix or feature. At
> > least that should make it more obvious to users and the community
> > that you get out of Commons what you put in to some extent.
> >
> > Gary
> >
> > <div>-------- Original message --------</div><div>From: Benedikt
> > Ritter <[hidden email]> </div><div>Date:11/29/2014 05:53
> > (GMT-05:00) </div><div>To: Commons Developers List
> > <[hidden email]> </div><div>Cc: </div><div>Subject: [ALL]
> > Do we need help? </div><div> </div>Hi all,
> >
> > currently I feel really overwhelmed by the stuff I'd like to do at
> > commons and the little time I can spend for it. Here is an
> > (incomplete) list of the things I'd like to work on:
> >
> > - get a new release of the build plugin out of the door for auto
> > creating README.md and CONTRIBUTING.md
> > - Work on [VALIDATOR] and get a new release out of the door
> > - Work on [DBUTILS] and get a new release out of the door
> > - Push [lang] 3.4 out of the door
> > - Have a look at [compress] 2.0
> > - Backport important fixes from [collections] 4.0 to 3.x and create
> > a last service update
> > - work on [text]
> > - help releasing [imaging] 1.0
> > - Improve docs on how to get involved at commons
> > - Organize a logo contest for commons
> > - ... many more
> >
> > I wonder how you feel about this. I have the feeling that a lot of
> > people ask us to fix stuff and release components but we don't
> > really catch up with this. This will give people the feeling that
> > we are slow or we simply don't care.
> > Whenever I see someone posting on JIRA "can you please fix this, we
> > need this in out application" and nobody is reacting, I feel
> > tempted to jump right in, even if I don't know the component (which
> > adds another entry to the list above).
> > I don't see a way how we can improve this. My feeling is, that we
> > need more committers. But then I have the comments of people I've
> > talked to in my ear: "to old school", "to difficult to get
> > involved", "to slow development process", "to unwelcoming
> > community". So what do we do? Do we need help?
> >
> > I'm excited to hear your thoughts :-)
> >
> > Best regards,
> > Benedikt
> >
> >
>
>


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Re: [ALL] Do we need help?

Duncan Jones-3
In reply to this post by Benedikt Ritter-4
On 29 Nov 2014 10:53, "Benedikt Ritter" <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> Hi all,
>
> currently I feel really overwhelmed by the stuff I'd like to do at commons
> and the little time I can spend for it. Here is an (incomplete) list of
the

> things I'd like to work on:
>
> - get a new release of the build plugin out of the door for auto creating
> README.md and CONTRIBUTING.md
> - Work on [VALIDATOR] and get a new release out of the door
> - Work on [DBUTILS] and get a new release out of the door
> - Push [lang] 3.4 out of the door
> - Have a look at [compress] 2.0
> - Backport important fixes from [collections] 4.0 to 3.x and create a last
> service update
> - work on [text]
> - help releasing [imaging] 1.0
> - Improve docs on how to get involved at commons
> - Organize a logo contest for commons
> - ... many more
>
> I wonder how you feel about this. I have the feeling that a lot of people
> ask us to fix stuff and release components but we don't really catch up
> with this. This will give people the feeling that we are slow or we simply
> don't care.

Is the release process unnecessarily cumbersome for the RM? If so, perhaps
some time spent automating more of the procedure would be worthwhile.

Maybe we could consider some guidelines for when a release is needed. E.g.
After X fixes or Y new features then a release ought to happen unless there
is a strong reason not to.

Duncan

> Whenever I see someone posting on JIRA "can you please fix this, we need
> this in out application" and nobody is reacting, I feel tempted to jump
> right in, even if I don't know the component (which adds another entry to
> the list above).
> I don't see a way how we can improve this. My feeling is, that we need
more

> committers. But then I have the comments of people I've talked to in my
> ear: "to old school", "to difficult to get involved", "to slow development
> process", "to unwelcoming community". So what do we do? Do we need help?
>
> I'm excited to hear your thoughts :-)
>
> Best regards,
> Benedikt
>
>
> --
> http://people.apache.org/~britter/
> http://www.systemoutprintln.de/
> http://twitter.com/BenediktRitter
> http://github.com/britter
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Re: [ALL] Do we need help?

garydgregory
On Sun, Nov 30, 2014 at 9:25 AM, Duncan Jones <[hidden email]> wrote:

> On 29 Nov 2014 10:53, "Benedikt Ritter" <[hidden email]> wrote:
> >
> > Hi all,
> >
> > currently I feel really overwhelmed by the stuff I'd like to do at
> commons
> > and the little time I can spend for it. Here is an (incomplete) list of
> the
> > things I'd like to work on:
> >
> > - get a new release of the build plugin out of the door for auto creating
> > README.md and CONTRIBUTING.md
> > - Work on [VALIDATOR] and get a new release out of the door
> > - Work on [DBUTILS] and get a new release out of the door
> > - Push [lang] 3.4 out of the door
> > - Have a look at [compress] 2.0
> > - Backport important fixes from [collections] 4.0 to 3.x and create a
> last
> > service update
> > - work on [text]
> > - help releasing [imaging] 1.0
> > - Improve docs on how to get involved at commons
> > - Organize a logo contest for commons
> > - ... many more
> >
> > I wonder how you feel about this. I have the feeling that a lot of people
> > ask us to fix stuff and release components but we don't really catch up
> > with this. This will give people the feeling that we are slow or we
> simply
> > don't care.
>
> Is the release process unnecessarily cumbersome for the RM?


RM'ing is a PITA IMO. I do not see it changing any time soon. The dual
distribution to Maven Central and the Apache Dist server complicates things
of course. It's plain silly IMO, we should just push to an Apache Maven
repo and be done. But... that's a topic for Apache at large.



> If so, perhaps
> some time spent automating more of the procedure would be worthwhile.
>
> Maybe we could consider some guidelines for when a release is needed. E.g.
> After X fixes or Y new features then a release ought to happen unless there
> is a strong reason not to.
>

While I appreciate the good intention, you still need a volunteer RM. It
does not matter how many fixes are pending and whether we have rules that
say we must release. I like RERO myself but the release gymnastics are
lame... but that is what we have now and I do not see change it an easy
thing to do... Perhaps we can pick some topics to discuss individually.

Gary

>
> Duncan
>
> > Whenever I see someone posting on JIRA "can you please fix this, we need
> > this in out application" and nobody is reacting, I feel tempted to jump
> > right in, even if I don't know the component (which adds another entry to
> > the list above).
> > I don't see a way how we can improve this. My feeling is, that we need
> more
> > committers. But then I have the comments of people I've talked to in my
> > ear: "to old school", "to difficult to get involved", "to slow
> development
> > process", "to unwelcoming community". So what do we do? Do we need help?
> >
> > I'm excited to hear your thoughts :-)
> >
> > Best regards,
> > Benedikt
> >
> >
> > --
> > http://people.apache.org/~britter/
> > http://www.systemoutprintln.de/
> > http://twitter.com/BenediktRitter
> > http://github.com/britter
>



--
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Java Persistence with Hibernate, Second Edition
<http://www.manning.com/bauer3/>
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Blog: http://garygregory.wordpress.com
Home: http://garygregory.com/
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Re: [ALL] Do we need help?

garydgregory
In reply to this post by Ralph Goers
Releasing VFS is long overdue. Whether it should be 2.1 or 3.0 (WRT
compatiblity) is the first thing we should discuss.

Gary

On Sat, Nov 29, 2014 at 9:54 PM, Ralph Goers <[hidden email]>
wrote:

> I acted as release manager for 2.0.  I did that because at the time I had
> a need for Commons VFS, I had a need to fix a bunch of stuff that didn’t
> work in 1.0, and I had the necessary privileges to do it.  Since that time
> I have been focused on Log4j 2 almost completely with what little time I
> have.  I have seen others commit fixes and enhancements and like you, I
> have been surprised that no one has bothered to perform a release. It
> should have happened a long time ago.
>
> One challenge to releasing VFS is that unlike most Commons projects, it is
> a multi-module project and it uses the Maven release plugin to perform a
> release. While this makes things a bit more complicated it still isn’t that
> hard to do. Unfortunately, I don’t believe I documented the release process
> but it should be similar to
> http://wiki.apache.org/logging/Log4j2ReleaseGuide <
> http://wiki.apache.org/logging/Log4j2ReleaseGuide>, since I based the
> Log4j build and release process after VFS.
>
> Ralph
>
>
> > On Nov 29, 2014, at 8:27 AM, [hidden email] wrote:
> >
> >
> > My 2 cents as an outsider, for what it's worth. I have contributed code
> to VFS and we use VFS in Accumulo. I and several others have asked for a
> 2.1 release, or at least a plan/roadmap so that we know what has to happen
> before a release can occur. I even offered to help in any way possible[1].
> The answer I received was that a release manager was assigned, but no other
> information. Since then I have seen a bunch of other commons projects being
> released. I figure that maybe they are dependencies and need to be released
> first before a VFS release.
> >
> > Personally, I would like to remove the VFS objects from Accumulo when
> VFS 2.1 is released. I know that we are also running into VFS-487, which I
> spent some time updating the patch and verifying the tests work. I would
> like to update the HDFS dependency to the latest before the 2.1 release
> (VFS-530), but I don't know when that is going to happen. I would also like
> to take advantage of some of the fixes in 2.1, like VFS-500.
> >
> > I understand this is a volunteer organization and everyone is busy.
> However, from my perspective, you have turned down an offer to help. FWIW,
> I have thought about taking VFS 2.1-SNAPSHOT, applying the patches I want,
> and creating a release for use on my project (not Accumulo).
> >
> > [1]
> http://mail-archives.apache.org/mod_mbox/commons-dev/201406.mbox/%3C423905266.3540581.1402347208157.JavaMail.root@...%3E
> >
> > - Dave
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> >
> > From: "Gary Gregory" <[hidden email]>
> > To: "Commons Developers List" <[hidden email]>
> > Sent: Saturday, November 29, 2014 7:42:35 AM
> > Subject: RE: [ALL] Do we need help?
> >
> > It feels overwhelming sometimes sure, but for me I just realize that
> this is just a self inflicted feeling. We are all volunteers here with no
> contractual or "hard" expectations. We could do better at managing
> expectations for certain and recruiting new blood, yes. But that takes time
> away from fun development tasks... I usually ask for patches as soon as
> someone asks for a fix or feature. At least that should make it more
> obvious to users and the community that you get out of Commons what you put
> in to some extent.
> >
> > Gary
> >
> > <div>-------- Original message --------</div><div>From: Benedikt Ritter <
> [hidden email]> </div><div>Date:11/29/2014 05:53 (GMT-05:00)
> </div><div>To: Commons Developers List <[hidden email]>
> </div><div>Cc: </div><div>Subject: [ALL] Do we need help? </div><div>
> > </div>Hi all,
> >
> > currently I feel really overwhelmed by the stuff I'd like to do at
> commons
> > and the little time I can spend for it. Here is an (incomplete) list of
> the
> > things I'd like to work on:
> >
> > - get a new release of the build plugin out of the door for auto creating
> > README.md and CONTRIBUTING.md
> > - Work on [VALIDATOR] and get a new release out of the door
> > - Work on [DBUTILS] and get a new release out of the door
> > - Push [lang] 3.4 out of the door
> > - Have a look at [compress] 2.0
> > - Backport important fixes from [collections] 4.0 to 3.x and create a
> last
> > service update
> > - work on [text]
> > - help releasing [imaging] 1.0
> > - Improve docs on how to get involved at commons
> > - Organize a logo contest for commons
> > - ... many more
> >
> > I wonder how you feel about this. I have the feeling that a lot of people
> > ask us to fix stuff and release components but we don't really catch up
> > with this. This will give people the feeling that we are slow or we
> simply
> > don't care.
> > Whenever I see someone posting on JIRA "can you please fix this, we need
> > this in out application" and nobody is reacting, I feel tempted to jump
> > right in, even if I don't know the component (which adds another entry to
> > the list above).
> > I don't see a way how we can improve this. My feeling is, that we need
> more
> > committers. But then I have the comments of people I've talked to in my
> > ear: "to old school", "to difficult to get involved", "to slow
> development
> > process", "to unwelcoming community". So what do we do? Do we need help?
> >
> > I'm excited to hear your thoughts :-)
> >
> > Best regards,
> > Benedikt
> >
> >
> > --
> > http://people.apache.org/~britter/
> > http://www.systemoutprintln.de/
> > http://twitter.com/BenediktRitter
> > http://github.com/britter
> >
>
>


--
E-Mail: [hidden email] | [hidden email]
Java Persistence with Hibernate, Second Edition
<http://www.manning.com/bauer3/>
JUnit in Action, Second Edition <http://www.manning.com/tahchiev/>
Spring Batch in Action <http://www.manning.com/templier/>
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Re: [ALL] Do we need help?

garydgregory
In reply to this post by Bernd Eckenfels
We should start a separate ML thread of VFS.

Gary

On Sat, Nov 29, 2014 at 9:56 PM, Bernd Eckenfels <[hidden email]>
wrote:

> Hello,
>
> well I dont think we need to dig into the past, no matter if a RM is
> assigned or not, a release will happen when people get around to do it.
> And since the people who can do it are already overloaded it can get
> tricky.
>
> And I think the biggest roadblock is the large number of changes which
> have been implemented and which need to be ironed out in terms of
> compatibility. (Clirr Report especially).
>
> Greetings
> Bernd
>
> PS: in VFS-523 there are some open questions. I would like to go with
> the removal. However I think with updated hdfs libraries the windows
> tests do not work anymore, which makes it hard for me to test.
>
>
>  Am Sat, 29 Nov 2014 21:36:35
> -0500 schrieb <[hidden email]>:
>
> >
> >  Sorry, I thought a RM had been assigned[1]. I don't think I have any
> > patches for open tickets, the tickets that I am interested in
> > (487,500,530) already have patches waiting to be applied.
> > Additionally, if there are open issues w/r/t HDFS integration, then I
> > can address them as well. The only HDFS related issues I see at this
> > time are 523 and 530, both of which have patches. I can update 530
> > with a more recent version of HDFS before a release of VFS.
> >
> > I don't remember seeing a previous discussion regarding a 2.1
> > release. It's very possible I missed it or it was filtered. Please
> > let me know how I can help.
> >
> > [1]
> >
> http://mail-archives.apache.org/mod_mbox/commons-dev/201407.mbox/%3CCACZkXPz
> > M5a3PEqk8Yq6TJdued6bNLd_286xKeEqAeuNMv6Svyg%40mail.gmail.com%3E
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Bernd Eckenfels [mailto:[hidden email]]
> > Sent: Saturday, November 29, 2014 3:21 PM
> > To: [hidden email]
> > Cc: Commons Developers List
> > Subject: Re: [ALL] Do we need help?
> >
> > Hello,
> >
> > I dont think we have a release manager for VFS, but I am still
> > working on Bugs. If you have a patch for a Bug which affects you,
> > please upload it to Jira. We can need all helps to prune them down.
> > Right now we have 3 blockers open. 2 in the area of FTP which I do
> > not have much experience with and one memory leaks where I am working
> > on.
> >
> > Once those are closed or downgraded we can try a release. However
> > last time I tried to start a discussion not much help was received. I
> > suspect this might chnage when the first RC is put out and all the
> > negative votes come in (there is a large Clirr report and while I
> > think most of it is acceptable, I really think we need to talk about
> > it).
> >
> > This is where Garys question comes in. Yes we might be a volunteering
> > organisation, but certain things bottleneck on experienced people in
> > the PMC. And I dont really know a way around this.
> >
> > Gruss
> > Bernd
> >
> >  Am Sat, 29 Nov
> > 2014 15:27:02 +0000 (UTC) schrieb [hidden email]:
> >
> > >
> > > My 2 cents as an outsider, for what it's worth. I have contributed
> > > code to VFS and we use VFS in Accumulo. I and several others have
> > > asked for a 2.1 release, or at least a plan/roadmap so that we know
> > > what has to happen before a release can occur. I even offered to
> > > help in any way possible[1]. The answer I received was that a
> > > release manager was assigned, but no other information. Since then
> > > I have seen a bunch of other commons projects being released. I
> > > figure that maybe they are dependencies and need to be released
> > > first before a VFS release.
> > >
> > > Personally, I would like to remove the VFS objects from Accumulo
> > > when VFS 2.1 is released. I know that we are also running into
> > > VFS-487, which I spent some time updating the patch and verifying
> > > the tests work. I would like to update the HDFS dependency to the
> > > latest before the 2.1 release (VFS-530), but I don't know when that
> > > is going to happen. I would also like to take advantage of some of
> > > the fixes in 2.1, like VFS-500.
> > >
> > > I understand this is a volunteer organization and everyone is busy.
> > > However, from my perspective, you have turned down an offer to help.
> > > FWIW, I have thought about taking VFS 2.1-SNAPSHOT, applying the
> > > patches I want, and creating a release for use on my project (not
> > > Accumulo).
> > >
> > > [1]
> > > http://mail-archives.apache.org/mod_mbox/commons-dev/201406.mbox/%3C42
> > > [hidden email]%3E
> > >
> > > - Dave
> > >
> > >
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > >
> > > From: "Gary Gregory" <[hidden email]>
> > > To: "Commons Developers List" <[hidden email]>
> > > Sent: Saturday, November 29, 2014 7:42:35 AM
> > > Subject: RE: [ALL] Do we need help?
> > >
> > > It feels overwhelming sometimes sure, but for me I just realize
> > > that this is just a self inflicted feeling. We are all volunteers
> > > here with no contractual or "hard" expectations. We could do better
> > > at managing expectations for certain and recruiting new blood, yes.
> > > But that takes time away from fun development tasks... I usually
> > > ask for patches as soon as someone asks for a fix or feature. At
> > > least that should make it more obvious to users and the community
> > > that you get out of Commons what you put in to some extent.
> > >
> > > Gary
> > >
> > > <div>-------- Original message --------</div><div>From: Benedikt
> > > Ritter <[hidden email]> </div><div>Date:11/29/2014 05:53
> > > (GMT-05:00) </div><div>To: Commons Developers List
> > > <[hidden email]> </div><div>Cc: </div><div>Subject: [ALL]
> > > Do we need help? </div><div> </div>Hi all,
> > >
> > > currently I feel really overwhelmed by the stuff I'd like to do at
> > > commons and the little time I can spend for it. Here is an
> > > (incomplete) list of the things I'd like to work on:
> > >
> > > - get a new release of the build plugin out of the door for auto
> > > creating README.md and CONTRIBUTING.md
> > > - Work on [VALIDATOR] and get a new release out of the door
> > > - Work on [DBUTILS] and get a new release out of the door
> > > - Push [lang] 3.4 out of the door
> > > - Have a look at [compress] 2.0
> > > - Backport important fixes from [collections] 4.0 to 3.x and create
> > > a last service update
> > > - work on [text]
> > > - help releasing [imaging] 1.0
> > > - Improve docs on how to get involved at commons
> > > - Organize a logo contest for commons
> > > - ... many more
> > >
> > > I wonder how you feel about this. I have the feeling that a lot of
> > > people ask us to fix stuff and release components but we don't
> > > really catch up with this. This will give people the feeling that
> > > we are slow or we simply don't care.
> > > Whenever I see someone posting on JIRA "can you please fix this, we
> > > need this in out application" and nobody is reacting, I feel
> > > tempted to jump right in, even if I don't know the component (which
> > > adds another entry to the list above).
> > > I don't see a way how we can improve this. My feeling is, that we
> > > need more committers. But then I have the comments of people I've
> > > talked to in my ear: "to old school", "to difficult to get
> > > involved", "to slow development process", "to unwelcoming
> > > community". So what do we do? Do we need help?
> > >
> > > I'm excited to hear your thoughts :-)
> > >
> > > Best regards,
> > > Benedikt
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: [hidden email]
> For additional commands, e-mail: [hidden email]
>
>


--
E-Mail: [hidden email] | [hidden email]
Java Persistence with Hibernate, Second Edition
<http://www.manning.com/bauer3/>
JUnit in Action, Second Edition <http://www.manning.com/tahchiev/>
Spring Batch in Action <http://www.manning.com/templier/>
Blog: http://garygregory.wordpress.com
Home: http://garygregory.com/
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Re: [ALL] Do we need help?

Benedikt Ritter-4
In reply to this post by James Sawle
Hello James,

2014-11-29 19:30 GMT+01:00 James Sawle <[hidden email]>:

> Hi all,
> Two things from me, a relatively new member of the community.
>
> I think much more effort needs to be on pushing things through code-review
> and to completion. There are many issues in LANG that have been awaiting
> review for well over a year or two. This means the commiters are no longer
> around to justify their decisions, and new contributors feel they are
> pushed aside whilst awaiting feedback.
>

I've already recognized your activity on JIRA. Unfortunately "Review work
of James Sawle" is just another entry on my TODO list.


>
> Secondly, there are too many long discussions around various issues,
> leading to either flame wars on decisions or no action being taken at all.
> The project leads should take the comments made and make a decision on what
> is to be done after a sensible set of comments have been made. This would
> be hard with how few people run the project, but maybe this would help
> rebalance and focus the project.
>

I haven't experienced the flame wars you're talking about. There a two
problems with long disucssions. 1. (as Mark has pointed out) there is no
project lead you can just decide. 2. Long discussions are a hint that a
problem is not fully understood or that there are two (or more) equally
valid solutions to a problem. So it's hard (for me as a committer) to pick
one...

Benedikt


>
> Would be willing to discuss this further
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> > On 29 Nov 2014, at 16:33, Thomas Neidhart <[hidden email]>
> wrote:
> >
> >> On 11/29/2014 11:53 AM, Benedikt Ritter wrote:
> >> Hi all,
> >>
> >> currently I feel really overwhelmed by the stuff I'd like to do at
> commons
> >> and the little time I can spend for it. Here is an (incomplete) list of
> the
> >> things I'd like to work on:
> >
> > Hi Benedikt,
> >
> >> - get a new release of the build plugin out of the door for auto
> creating
> >> README.md and CONTRIBUTING.md
> >> - Work on [VALIDATOR] and get a new release out of the door
> >> - Work on [DBUTILS] and get a new release out of the door
> >> - Push [lang] 3.4 out of the door
> >> - Have a look at [compress] 2.0
> >> - Backport important fixes from [collections] 4.0 to 3.x and create a
> last
> >> service update
> >> - work on [text]
> >> - help releasing [imaging] 1.0
> >> - Improve docs on how to get involved at commons
> >> - Organize a logo contest for commons
> >> - ... many more
> >
> > this sounds like you set your goals too high and are frustrated that you
> > don't get all the things done. I guess this is a common scheme for
> > ambitious/passionate people. Try to set more realistic goals and finish
> > them before doing other / more things. Then you will get the positive
> > feedback of achieving something and everything will be better.
> >
> >> I wonder how you feel about this. I have the feeling that a lot of
> people
> >> ask us to fix stuff and release components but we don't really catch up
> >> with this. This will give people the feeling that we are slow or we
> simply
> >> don't care.
> >> Whenever I see someone posting on JIRA "can you please fix this, we need
> >> this in out application" and nobody is reacting, I feel tempted to jump
> >> right in, even if I don't know the component (which adds another entry
> to
> >> the list above).
> >> I don't see a way how we can improve this. My feeling is, that we need
> more
> >> committers. But then I have the comments of people I've talked to in my
> >> ear: "to old school", "to difficult to get involved", "to slow
> development
> >> process", "to unwelcoming community". So what do we do? Do we need help?
> >>
> >> I'm excited to hear your thoughts :-)
> >
> > yeah, this is a general problem of commons imho. There are too many
> > components for a too small community as most of the original committers
> > have long left.
> >
> > The only way out is to do what we tried a couple of months ago: move not
> > maintained components to dormant, and keep the others alive with the
> > existing people.
> >
> > Just one example: jelly is a nice thing and actually used within jenkins
> > as the backbone html generator. But it is re-packaged within jenkins
> > custom bugfixes as the last jelly release (1.0) was in 2005.
> >
> > Similar things apply for el or primitives.
> >
> > These components are long dead and there are very good alternatives
> > available, so they should be abandoned. Cut off the dead branches to
> > keep the tree alive.
> >
> > Thomas
> >
> > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> > To unsubscribe, e-mail: [hidden email]
> > For additional commands, e-mail: [hidden email]
> >
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: [hidden email]
> For additional commands, e-mail: [hidden email]
>
>


--
http://people.apache.org/~britter/
http://www.systemoutprintln.de/
http://twitter.com/BenediktRitter
http://github.com/britter
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Re: [ALL] Do we need help?

Benedikt Ritter-4
In reply to this post by Bruno P. Kinoshita
Hello Bruno

2014-11-30 0:31 GMT+01:00 Bruno P. Kinoshita <[hidden email]>:

> Hi Thomas!
> I use Jelly almost every week in Jenkins plug-ins. Talked about the forked
> repo they have in the project, and even told them I could spend some hours
> every week to fix the necessary issues.
> Even though it is possible to use Groovy in Jenkins views too now, there
> are so many existing plug-ins (that are used as basis for new plug-ins)
> that I find it very hard to see jelly removed from Jenkins.
> Would anyone be interested and have time to push a new release ? I could
> check what needed to be done in [jelly] and either update or add new issues.
> Bruno
>

You always seem to be forgetting, that you're commons committer :-) If you
feel like working on any component, just drop a mail on the ML and start
work ;-) Other people will eventually join you.

Benedikt


>
>       From: Thomas Neidhart <[hidden email]>
>  To: Commons Developers List <[hidden email]>
>  Sent: Saturday, November 29, 2014 2:31 PM
>  Subject: Re: [ALL] Do we need help?
>
> On 11/29/2014 11:53 AM, Benedikt Ritter wrote:
> > Hi all,
> >
> > currently I feel really overwhelmed by the stuff I'd like to do at
> commons
> > and the little time I can spend for it. Here is an (incomplete) list of
> the
> > things I'd like to work on:
>
> Hi Benedikt,
>
> > - get a new release of the build plugin out of the door for auto creating
> > README.md and CONTRIBUTING.md
> > - Work on [VALIDATOR] and get a new release out of the door
> > - Work on [DBUTILS] and get a new release out of the door
> > - Push [lang] 3.4 out of the door
> > - Have a look at [compress] 2.0
> > - Backport important fixes from [collections] 4.0 to 3.x and create a
> last
> > service update
> > - work on [text]
> > - help releasing [imaging] 1.0
> > - Improve docs on how to get involved at commons
> > - Organize a logo contest for commons
> > - ... many more
>
> this sounds like you set your goals too high and are frustrated that you
> don't get all the things done. I guess this is a common scheme for
> ambitious/passionate people. Try to set more realistic goals and finish
> them before doing other / more things. Then you will get the positive
> feedback of achieving something and everything will be better.
>
>
>
> > I wonder how you feel about this. I have the feeling that a lot of people
> > ask us to fix stuff and release components but we don't really catch up
> > with this. This will give people the feeling that we are slow or we
> simply
> > don't care.
> > Whenever I see someone posting on JIRA "can you please fix this, we need
> > this in out application" and nobody is reacting, I feel tempted to jump
> > right in, even if I don't know the component (which adds another entry to
> > the list above).
> > I don't see a way how we can improve this. My feeling is, that we need
> more
> > committers. But then I have the comments of people I've talked to in my
> > ear: "to old school", "to difficult to get involved", "to slow
> development
> > process", "to unwelcoming community". So what do we do? Do we need help?
> >
> > I'm excited to hear your thoughts :-)
>
> yeah, this is a general problem of commons imho. There are too many
> components for a too small community as most of the original committers
> have long left.
>
> The only way out is to do what we tried a couple of months ago: move not
> maintained components to dormant, and keep the others alive with the
> existing people.
>
> Just one example: jelly is a nice thing and actually used within jenkins
> as the backbone html generator. But it is re-packaged within jenkins
> custom bugfixes as the last jelly release (1.0) was in 2005.
>
> Similar things apply for el or primitives.
>
> These components are long dead and there are very good alternatives
> available, so they should be abandoned. Cut off the dead branches to
> keep the tree alive.
>
> Thomas
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: [hidden email]
> For additional commands, e-mail: [hidden email]
>
>
>
>
>


--
http://people.apache.org/~britter/
http://www.systemoutprintln.de/
http://twitter.com/BenediktRitter
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Re: [ALL] Do we need help?

Stefan Bodewig
In reply to this post by Benedikt Ritter-4
On 2014-11-29, Benedikt Ritter wrote:

> currently I feel really overwhelmed by the stuff I'd like to do at commons
> and the little time I can spend for it.

As many others have already said, most of us know exactly what you are
talking about and IMHO the only solution for you is to not pick too many
goals at once.  And accept that you are human with a limited amount of
time at hand.  Doing one thing always means you decide against doing a
different thing.

> I wonder how you feel about this. I have the feeling that a lot of people
> ask us to fix stuff and release components but we don't really catch up
> with this. This will give people the feeling that we are slow or we simply
> don't care.

Maybe we are not good at explaining that we need help to fix stuff and
more oftne than not the people who experience the problems are best
suited to provide said help.

> I don't see a way how we can improve this. My feeling is, that we need more
> committers.

Right.  I'm not sure there is a recipe for this, though.

> But then I have the comments of people I've talked to in my ear: "to
> old school", "to difficult to get involved", "to slow development
> process", "to unwelcoming community". So what do we do? Do we need
> help?

If we are perceived as "unwelcoming" then this is a real problem - and
one we need to solve.  "old school" and "slow development" could easily
solved by fresh blood - much more than by anything the "old schoolers"
would do.

Stefan

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Re: [ALL] Do we need help?

Bruno P. Kinoshita
In reply to this post by Benedikt Ritter-4
Hello Benedikt!
I guess I'm being too cautious to commit or work on issues in other components :)
I'll slowly start working on [jelly] to port the changes made in Jenkins. But first will spend more time on [text], [functor] and [lang].
Thanks!Bruno
 
      From: Benedikt Ritter <[hidden email]>
 To: Commons Developers List <[hidden email]>; Bruno P. Kinoshita <[hidden email]>
 Sent: Sunday, November 30, 2014 4:15 PM
 Subject: Re: [ALL] Do we need help?
   
Hello Bruno

2014-11-30 0:31 GMT+01:00 Bruno P. Kinoshita <[hidden email]>:

Hi Thomas!
I use Jelly almost every week in Jenkins plug-ins. Talked about the forked repo they have in the project, and even told them I could spend some hours every week to fix the necessary issues. 
Even though it is possible to use Groovy in Jenkins views too now, there are so many existing plug-ins (that are used as basis for new plug-ins) that I find it very hard to see jelly removed from Jenkins.
Would anyone be interested and have time to push a new release ? I could check what needed to be done in [jelly] and either update or add new issues.
Bruno


You always seem to be forgetting, that you're commons committer :-) If you feel like working on any component, just drop a mail on the ML and start work ;-) Other people will eventually join you.
Benedikt

 

      From: Thomas Neidhart <[hidden email]>
 To: Commons Developers List <[hidden email]>
 Sent: Saturday, November 29, 2014 2:31 PM
 Subject: Re: [ALL] Do we need help?

On 11/29/2014 11:53 AM, Benedikt Ritter wrote:
> Hi all,
>
> currently I feel really overwhelmed by the stuff I'd like to do at commons
> and the little time I can spend for it. Here is an (incomplete) list of the
> things I'd like to work on:

Hi Benedikt,

> - get a new release of the build plugin out of the door for auto creating
> README.md and CONTRIBUTING.md
> - Work on [VALIDATOR] and get a new release out of the door
> - Work on [DBUTILS] and get a new release out of the door
> - Push [lang] 3.4 out of the door
> - Have a look at [compress] 2.0
> - Backport important fixes from [collections] 4.0 to 3.x and create a last
> service update
> - work on [text]
> - help releasing [imaging] 1.0
> - Improve docs on how to get involved at commons
> - Organize a logo contest for commons
> - ... many more

this sounds like you set your goals too high and are frustrated that you
don't get all the things done. I guess this is a common scheme for
ambitious/passionate people. Try to set more realistic goals and finish
them before doing other / more things. Then you will get the positive
feedback of achieving something and everything will be better.



> I wonder how you feel about this. I have the feeling that a lot of people
> ask us to fix stuff and release components but we don't really catch up
> with this. This will give people the feeling that we are slow or we simply
> don't care.
> Whenever I see someone posting on JIRA "can you please fix this, we need
> this in out application" and nobody is reacting, I feel tempted to jump
> right in, even if I don't know the component (which adds another entry to
> the list above).
> I don't see a way how we can improve this. My feeling is, that we need more
> committers. But then I have the comments of people I've talked to in my
> ear: "to old school", "to difficult to get involved", "to slow development
> process", "to unwelcoming community". So what do we do? Do we need help?
>
> I'm excited to hear your thoughts :-)

yeah, this is a general problem of commons imho. There are too many
components for a too small community as most of the original committers
have long left.

The only way out is to do what we tried a couple of months ago: move not
maintained components to dormant, and keep the others alive with the
existing people.

Just one example: jelly is a nice thing and actually used within jenkins
as the backbone html generator. But it is re-packaged within jenkins
custom bugfixes as the last jelly release (1.0) was in 2005.

Similar things apply for el or primitives.

These components are long dead and there are very good alternatives
available, so they should be abandoned. Cut off the dead branches to
keep the tree alive.

Thomas

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Re: [ALL] Do we need help?

Paul Benedict
Whenever I've felt like there is "too much work and too little people to do
it", I remind myself Apache is not a job (unless someone is paying you for
your work), but a volunteer organization. Everyone does what he/she wants
to do... and if it's not personally fun or interesting, those people will
move on. The same with you, too. Enjoy participating and don't get
overwhelmed with any expectations, because there are no expectations put on
you.


Cheers,
Paul

On Sun, Nov 30, 2014 at 6:42 PM, Bruno P. Kinoshita <
[hidden email]> wrote:

> Hello Benedikt!
> I guess I'm being too cautious to commit or work on issues in other
> components :)
> I'll slowly start working on [jelly] to port the changes made in Jenkins.
> But first will spend more time on [text], [functor] and [lang].
> Thanks!Bruno
>
>       From: Benedikt Ritter <[hidden email]>
>  To: Commons Developers List <[hidden email]>; Bruno P. Kinoshita
> <[hidden email]>
>  Sent: Sunday, November 30, 2014 4:15 PM
>  Subject: Re: [ALL] Do we need help?
>
> Hello Bruno
>
> 2014-11-30 0:31 GMT+01:00 Bruno P. Kinoshita <[hidden email]>:
>
> Hi Thomas!
> I use Jelly almost every week in Jenkins plug-ins. Talked about the forked
> repo they have in the project, and even told them I could spend some hours
> every week to fix the necessary issues.
> Even though it is possible to use Groovy in Jenkins views too now, there
> are so many existing plug-ins (that are used as basis for new plug-ins)
> that I find it very hard to see jelly removed from Jenkins.
> Would anyone be interested and have time to push a new release ? I could
> check what needed to be done in [jelly] and either update or add new issues.
> Bruno
>
>
> You always seem to be forgetting, that you're commons committer :-) If you
> feel like working on any component, just drop a mail on the ML and start
> work ;-) Other people will eventually join you.
> Benedikt
>
>
>
>       From: Thomas Neidhart <[hidden email]>
>  To: Commons Developers List <[hidden email]>
>  Sent: Saturday, November 29, 2014 2:31 PM
>  Subject: Re: [ALL] Do we need help?
>
> On 11/29/2014 11:53 AM, Benedikt Ritter wrote:
> > Hi all,
> >
> > currently I feel really overwhelmed by the stuff I'd like to do at
> commons
> > and the little time I can spend for it. Here is an (incomplete) list of
> the
> > things I'd like to work on:
>
> Hi Benedikt,
>
> > - get a new release of the build plugin out of the door for auto creating
> > README.md and CONTRIBUTING.md
> > - Work on [VALIDATOR] and get a new release out of the door
> > - Work on [DBUTILS] and get a new release out of the door
> > - Push [lang] 3.4 out of the door
> > - Have a look at [compress] 2.0
> > - Backport important fixes from [collections] 4.0 to 3.x and create a
> last
> > service update
> > - work on [text]
> > - help releasing [imaging] 1.0
> > - Improve docs on how to get involved at commons
> > - Organize a logo contest for commons
> > - ... many more
>
> this sounds like you set your goals too high and are frustrated that you
> don't get all the things done. I guess this is a common scheme for
> ambitious/passionate people. Try to set more realistic goals and finish
> them before doing other / more things. Then you will get the positive
> feedback of achieving something and everything will be better.
>
>
>
> > I wonder how you feel about this. I have the feeling that a lot of people
> > ask us to fix stuff and release components but we don't really catch up
> > with this. This will give people the feeling that we are slow or we
> simply
> > don't care.
> > Whenever I see someone posting on JIRA "can you please fix this, we need
> > this in out application" and nobody is reacting, I feel tempted to jump
> > right in, even if I don't know the component (which adds another entry to
> > the list above).
> > I don't see a way how we can improve this. My feeling is, that we need
> more
> > committers. But then I have the comments of people I've talked to in my
> > ear: "to old school", "to difficult to get involved", "to slow
> development
> > process", "to unwelcoming community". So what do we do? Do we need help?
> >
> > I'm excited to hear your thoughts :-)
>
> yeah, this is a general problem of commons imho. There are too many
> components for a too small community as most of the original committers
> have long left.
>
> The only way out is to do what we tried a couple of months ago: move not
> maintained components to dormant, and keep the others alive with the
> existing people.
>
> Just one example: jelly is a nice thing and actually used within jenkins
> as the backbone html generator. But it is re-packaged within jenkins
> custom bugfixes as the last jelly release (1.0) was in 2005.
>
> Similar things apply for el or primitives.
>
> These components are long dead and there are very good alternatives
> available, so they should be abandoned. Cut off the dead branches to
> keep the tree alive.
>
> Thomas
>
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> --
>
> http://people.apache.org/~britter/http://www.systemoutprintln.de/http://twitter.com/BenediktRitterhttp://github.com/britter
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