Advice on project logo

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Advice on project logo

Gilles Sadowski-2
Hello.

We, at Apache Commons, would like to know whether an Apache
project  is authorized to extract graphical elements from the
foundation's logo, apply some transformation to them, and use
the result in order to compose its own logo.

Case in point is here:
    https://svn.apache.org/repos/asf/comdev/project-logos/originals/commons.svg
(where the feather has been rotated).

Does it constitute a breach of the recommendations published in
the "Identity Style Guide"?[1]

Thank you,
Gilles Sadowski

[1] https://apache.org/foundation/press/kit/ApacheFoundation_StyleGuide.pdf

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Re: Advice on project logo

Sally Khudairi-4
Thank you, Gilles. I appreciate you reaching out.

Normally I encourage PMCs to not re-orient or "spindle" the feather where possible, but I understand that some legacy logos have a bit of a problem with positioning. For example, the Apache HTTP Server logo:

 - original logo https://twitter.com/apache_httpd/photo
 - interim logo https://britewire.com/apache-http-server/
 - new logo https://svn.apache.org/repos/asf/comdev/project-logos/originals/httpd.svg


Whilst I understand the proposed design, I'm not *loving* the look of the logo, particularly as Apache Commons has such a massive footprint across so many projects.

To that end, may I ask a favor?

Would you and the Apache Commons PMC be amenable to considering having Central Services --a somewhat new sub-group of ASF Marketing & Publicity-- help you with creating a new logo?

If you are not in a rush, we can see how we can help you. ApacheCon North America starts on Monday, and we can start the discussions on what your requirements are and the best way to meet your needs. ApacheCon Europe is taking place in October: I was thinking the timeframe between the two events (~6 weeks) would be sufficient for us to have a few proposals developed.

If this works for you, we can get started this week.

If not, I understand. You may proceed with the proposed logo with the intention of revisiting and updating in future.

Many kind thanks again for your attention and consideration.

Warm regards,
Sally

- - -
Vice President Marketing & Publicity
Vice President Sponsor Relations
The Apache Software Foundation

Tel +1 617 921 8656 | [hidden email]

On Fri, Sep 6, 2019, at 17:18, Gilles Sadowski wrote:

> Hello.
>
> We, at Apache Commons, would like to know whether an Apache
> project  is authorized to extract graphical elements from the
> foundation's logo, apply some transformation to them, and use
> the result in order to compose its own logo.
>
> Case in point is here:
>     https://svn.apache.org/repos/asf/comdev/project-logos/originals/commons.svg
> (where the feather has been rotated).
>
> Does it constitute a breach of the recommendations published in
> the "Identity Style Guide"?[1]
>
> Thank you,
> Gilles Sadowski
>
> [1] https://apache.org/foundation/press/kit/ApacheFoundation_StyleGuide.pdf
>

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Re: Advice on project logo

Gilles Sadowski-2
Hello.

Le sam. 7 sept. 2019 à 13:29, Sally Khudairi <[hidden email]> a écrit :
>
> Thank you, Gilles. I appreciate you reaching out.
>
> Normally I encourage PMCs to not re-orient or "spindle" the feather where possible, but I understand that some legacy logos have a bit of a problem with positioning. For example, the Apache HTTP Server logo:
>
>  - original logo https://twitter.com/apache_httpd/photo
>  - interim logo https://britewire.com/apache-http-server/
>  - new logo https://svn.apache.org/repos/asf/comdev/project-logos/originals/httpd.svg

So is the choice between
 * use the exact same feather as the foundation's
 * not use anything that even remotely looks like feather
?

> Whilst I understand the proposed design, I'm not *loving* the look of the logo, particularly as Apache Commons has such a massive footprint across so many projects.
>
> To that end, may I ask a favor?
>
> Would you and the Apache Commons PMC be amenable to considering having Central Services --a somewhat new sub-group of ASF Marketing & Publicity-- help you with creating a new logo?

Help from experts is welcome.

> If you are not in a rush, we can see how we can help you.

I don't think we should be in a rush, as the proposal to change the
projects' logo(s) dates back from 3 years ago.[1]

> ApacheCon North America starts on Monday, and we can start the discussions on what your requirements are and the best way to meet your needs.

I can only speak about of my preferences:[2]
 * At most 2 or 3 graphical elements reminiscent of the project
 (feather included, if applicable)
 * No URL
 * Clearly visible at all (reasonable) resolutions [3]
 * Combinable with 1 additional grahical element (so that we can
easily create one logo for each of the many components hosted
in "Commons" [4]

> ApacheCon Europe is taking place in October: I was thinking the timeframe between the two events (~6 weeks) would be sufficient for us to have a few proposals developed.

Great.

> If this works for you, we can get started this week.

Fine with me.

> If not, I understand. You may proceed with the proposed logo with the intention of revisiting and updating in future.

Now is a good time.
Indeed, that logo is not favoured by the community (at least the few
who voiced their opinion).[5]  And, IMHO, the alternatives are failing
what I consider basic requirements (cf. above).[6]

> Many kind thanks again for your attention and consideration.
>
> Warm regards,
> Sally

Thank you very much for the offer,
Gilles

[1] https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/COMMONSSITE-86
[2] Discussion thread:
    https://markmail.org/message/twsre7wl6jmue6mp
[3] For example, when I look at the top left of the Apache's JIRA pages:
    https://issues.apache.org/jira/secure/Dashboard.jspa
I see either a bad logo, or an inadequate use of it.
[4] See e.g. http://commons.apache.org/proper/commons-rng/
[5] Lacking feedback, I opted for an upgrade of the feather using
the foundation's new graphics keeping the old (and supposedly
consensual) idea for the feather orientation.
[6] Even though it's great that Loic Guibert was willing to provide
idea and a few examples.

>
> Tel +1 617 921 8656 | [hidden email]
>
> On Fri, Sep 6, 2019, at 17:18, Gilles Sadowski wrote:
> > Hello.
> >
> > We, at Apache Commons, would like to know whether an Apache
> > project  is authorized to extract graphical elements from the
> > foundation's logo, apply some transformation to them, and use
> > the result in order to compose its own logo.
> >
> > Case in point is here:
> >     https://svn.apache.org/repos/asf/comdev/project-logos/originals/commons.svg
> > (where the feather has been rotated).
> >
> > Does it constitute a breach of the recommendations published in
> > the "Identity Style Guide"?[1]
> >
> > Thank you,
> > Gilles Sadowski
> >
> > [1] https://apache.org/foundation/press/kit/ApacheFoundation_StyleGuide.pdf
> >

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Re: Advice on project logo

Sally Khudairi-4
Thank you, Gilles.

I'm copying Kenneth Paskett, creative lead from Central Services. I was talking to him about this opportunity yesterday: we will be happy to explore options for a future design.

I'm not saying "don't use anything that remotely looks like the feather". It's important that if we choose to use an ASF-feather-inspired motif that it doesn't look like it's a "broken" version of the original. Ways around that issue could involve the shape or color of the feather, among other adjustments.

Thank you and the community for your trust. We look forward to working with you.

Best,
Sally

- - -
Vice President Marketing & Publicity
Vice President Sponsor Relations
The Apache Software Foundation

Tel +1 617 921 8656 | [hidden email]

On Mon, Sep 9, 2019, at 03:22, Gilles Sadowski wrote:

> Hello.
>
> Le sam. 7 sept. 2019 à 13:29, Sally Khudairi <[hidden email]> a écrit :
> >
> > Thank you, Gilles. I appreciate you reaching out.
> >
> > Normally I encourage PMCs to not re-orient or "spindle" the feather where possible, but I understand that some legacy logos have a bit of a problem with positioning. For example, the Apache HTTP Server logo:
> >
> >  - original logo https://twitter.com/apache_httpd/photo
> >  - interim logo https://britewire.com/apache-http-server/
> >  - new logo https://svn.apache.org/repos/asf/comdev/project-logos/originals/httpd.svg
>
> So is the choice between
>  * use the exact same feather as the foundation's
>  * not use anything that even remotely looks like feather
> ?
>
> > Whilst I understand the proposed design, I'm not *loving* the look of the logo, particularly as Apache Commons has such a massive footprint across so many projects.
> >
> > To that end, may I ask a favor?
> >
> > Would you and the Apache Commons PMC be amenable to considering having Central Services --a somewhat new sub-group of ASF Marketing & Publicity-- help you with creating a new logo?
>
> Help from experts is welcome.
>
> > If you are not in a rush, we can see how we can help you.
>
> I don't think we should be in a rush, as the proposal to change the
> projects' logo(s) dates back from 3 years ago.[1]
>
> > ApacheCon North America starts on Monday, and we can start the discussions on what your requirements are and the best way to meet your needs.
>
> I can only speak about of my preferences:[2]
>  * At most 2 or 3 graphical elements reminiscent of the project
>  (feather included, if applicable)
>  * No URL
>  * Clearly visible at all (reasonable) resolutions [3]
>  * Combinable with 1 additional grahical element (so that we can
> easily create one logo for each of the many components hosted
> in "Commons" [4]
>
> > ApacheCon Europe is taking place in October: I was thinking the timeframe between the two events (~6 weeks) would be sufficient for us to have a few proposals developed.
>
> Great.
>
> > If this works for you, we can get started this week.
>
> Fine with me.
>
> > If not, I understand. You may proceed with the proposed logo with the intention of revisiting and updating in future.
>
> Now is a good time.
> Indeed, that logo is not favoured by the community (at least the few
> who voiced their opinion).[5]  And, IMHO, the alternatives are failing
> what I consider basic requirements (cf. above).[6]
>
> > Many kind thanks again for your attention and consideration.
> >
> > Warm regards,
> > Sally
>
> Thank you very much for the offer,
> Gilles
>
> [1] https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/COMMONSSITE-86
> [2] Discussion thread:
>     https://markmail.org/message/twsre7wl6jmue6mp
> [3] For example, when I look at the top left of the Apache's JIRA pages:
>     https://issues.apache.org/jira/secure/Dashboard.jspa
> I see either a bad logo, or an inadequate use of it.
> [4] See e.g. http://commons.apache.org/proper/commons-rng/
> [5] Lacking feedback, I opted for an upgrade of the feather using
> the foundation's new graphics keeping the old (and supposedly
> consensual) idea for the feather orientation.
> [6] Even though it's great that Loic Guibert was willing to provide
> idea and a few examples.
>
> >
> > Tel +1 617 921 8656 | [hidden email]
> >
> > On Fri, Sep 6, 2019, at 17:18, Gilles Sadowski wrote:
> > > Hello.
> > >
> > > We, at Apache Commons, would like to know whether an Apache
> > > project  is authorized to extract graphical elements from the
> > > foundation's logo, apply some transformation to them, and use
> > > the result in order to compose its own logo.
> > >
> > > Case in point is here:
> > >     https://svn.apache.org/repos/asf/comdev/project-logos/originals/commons.svg
> > > (where the feather has been rotated).
> > >
> > > Does it constitute a breach of the recommendations published in
> > > the "Identity Style Guide"?[1]
> > >
> > > Thank you,
> > > Gilles Sadowski
> > >
> > > [1] https://apache.org/foundation/press/kit/ApacheFoundation_StyleGuide.pdf
> > >
>

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Re: Advice on project logo

Gilles Sadowski-2
Hi.

Le lun. 9 sept. 2019 à 12:35, Sally Khudairi <[hidden email]> a écrit :
>
> Thank you, Gilles.
>
> I'm copying Kenneth Paskett, creative lead from Central Services. I was talking to him about this opportunity yesterday: we will be happy to explore options for a future design.
>
> I'm not saying "don't use anything that remotely looks like the feather". It's important that if we choose to use an ASF-feather-inspired motif that it doesn't look like it's a "broken" version of the original.

It was certainly not the intention.
It is difficult/impossible to argue on things that boil down
to a matter of taste or arbitrary policy (like the kinds of
reuse that are allowed and not by the rights owner).

> Ways around that issue could involve the shape or color of the feather, among other adjustments.

Exactly what I meant: IMHO those changes are more "broken"
than a rotation. ;-)
[But if they are allowed, then fine.]

> Thank you and the community for your trust. We look forward to working with you.

Hopefully, preferences will be collected in the thread which I
mentioned in the previous message, and the community can
converge on a few ideas to help with the design.

Best regards,
Gilles

>
> Best,
> Sally
>
> - - -
> Vice President Marketing & Publicity
> Vice President Sponsor Relations
> The Apache Software Foundation
>
> Tel +1 617 921 8656 | [hidden email]
>
> On Mon, Sep 9, 2019, at 03:22, Gilles Sadowski wrote:
> > Hello.
> >
> > Le sam. 7 sept. 2019 à 13:29, Sally Khudairi <[hidden email]> a écrit :
> > >
> > > Thank you, Gilles. I appreciate you reaching out.
> > >
> > > Normally I encourage PMCs to not re-orient or "spindle" the feather where possible, but I understand that some legacy logos have a bit of a problem with positioning. For example, the Apache HTTP Server logo:
> > >
> > >  - original logo https://twitter.com/apache_httpd/photo
> > >  - interim logo https://britewire.com/apache-http-server/
> > >  - new logo https://svn.apache.org/repos/asf/comdev/project-logos/originals/httpd.svg
> >
> > So is the choice between
> >  * use the exact same feather as the foundation's
> >  * not use anything that even remotely looks like feather
> > ?
> >
> > > Whilst I understand the proposed design, I'm not *loving* the look of the logo, particularly as Apache Commons has such a massive footprint across so many projects.
> > >
> > > To that end, may I ask a favor?
> > >
> > > Would you and the Apache Commons PMC be amenable to considering having Central Services --a somewhat new sub-group of ASF Marketing & Publicity-- help you with creating a new logo?
> >
> > Help from experts is welcome.
> >
> > > If you are not in a rush, we can see how we can help you.
> >
> > I don't think we should be in a rush, as the proposal to change the
> > projects' logo(s) dates back from 3 years ago.[1]
> >
> > > ApacheCon North America starts on Monday, and we can start the discussions on what your requirements are and the best way to meet your needs.
> >
> > I can only speak about of my preferences:[2]
> >  * At most 2 or 3 graphical elements reminiscent of the project
> >  (feather included, if applicable)
> >  * No URL
> >  * Clearly visible at all (reasonable) resolutions [3]
> >  * Combinable with 1 additional grahical element (so that we can
> > easily create one logo for each of the many components hosted
> > in "Commons" [4]
> >
> > > ApacheCon Europe is taking place in October: I was thinking the timeframe between the two events (~6 weeks) would be sufficient for us to have a few proposals developed.
> >
> > Great.
> >
> > > If this works for you, we can get started this week.
> >
> > Fine with me.
> >
> > > If not, I understand. You may proceed with the proposed logo with the intention of revisiting and updating in future.
> >
> > Now is a good time.
> > Indeed, that logo is not favoured by the community (at least the few
> > who voiced their opinion).[5]  And, IMHO, the alternatives are failing
> > what I consider basic requirements (cf. above).[6]
> >
> > > Many kind thanks again for your attention and consideration.
> > >
> > > Warm regards,
> > > Sally
> >
> > Thank you very much for the offer,
> > Gilles
> >
> > [1] https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/COMMONSSITE-86
> > [2] Discussion thread:
> >     https://markmail.org/message/twsre7wl6jmue6mp
> > [3] For example, when I look at the top left of the Apache's JIRA pages:
> >     https://issues.apache.org/jira/secure/Dashboard.jspa
> > I see either a bad logo, or an inadequate use of it.
> > [4] See e.g. http://commons.apache.org/proper/commons-rng/
> > [5] Lacking feedback, I opted for an upgrade of the feather using
> > the foundation's new graphics keeping the old (and supposedly
> > consensual) idea for the feather orientation.
> > [6] Even though it's great that Loic Guibert was willing to provide
> > idea and a few examples.
> >
> > >
> > > Tel +1 617 921 8656 | [hidden email]
> > >
> > > On Fri, Sep 6, 2019, at 17:18, Gilles Sadowski wrote:
> > > > Hello.
> > > >
> > > > We, at Apache Commons, would like to know whether an Apache
> > > > project  is authorized to extract graphical elements from the
> > > > foundation's logo, apply some transformation to them, and use
> > > > the result in order to compose its own logo.
> > > >
> > > > Case in point is here:
> > > >     https://svn.apache.org/repos/asf/comdev/project-logos/originals/commons.svg
> > > > (where the feather has been rotated).
> > > >
> > > > Does it constitute a breach of the recommendations published in
> > > > the "Identity Style Guide"?[1]
> > > >
> > > > Thank you,
> > > > Gilles Sadowski
> > > >
> > > > [1] https://apache.org/foundation/press/kit/ApacheFoundation_StyleGuide.pdf
> > > >

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Re: Advice on project logo

Rob Tompkins


> On Sep 9, 2019, at 11:31 AM, Gilles Sadowski <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> Hi.
>
> Le lun. 9 sept. 2019 à 12:35, Sally Khudairi <[hidden email]> a écrit :
>>
>> Thank you, Gilles.
>>
>> I'm copying Kenneth Paskett, creative lead from Central Services. I was talking to him about this opportunity yesterday: we will be happy to explore options for a future design.

Just curious, who on this transmission is at ApacheCon this week. Having worked with Sally in the past on an ad-hoc logo for the DC road show earlier this year, I could sit down with her and see if we can get something analogous to what we have in place currently that satisfies everyone (granted my designs tend to be minimalist in nature).

Thoughts?

-Rob

>>
>> I'm not saying "don't use anything that remotely looks like the feather". It's important that if we choose to use an ASF-feather-inspired motif that it doesn't look like it's a "broken" version of the original.
>
> It was certainly not the intention.
> It is difficult/impossible to argue on things that boil down
> to a matter of taste or arbitrary policy (like the kinds of
> reuse that are allowed and not by the rights owner).
>
>> Ways around that issue could involve the shape or color of the feather, among other adjustments.
>
> Exactly what I meant: IMHO those changes are more "broken"
> than a rotation. ;-)
> [But if they are allowed, then fine.]
>
>> Thank you and the community for your trust. We look forward to working with you.
>
> Hopefully, preferences will be collected in the thread which I
> mentioned in the previous message, and the community can
> converge on a few ideas to help with the design.
>
> Best regards,
> Gilles
>
>>
>> Best,
>> Sally
>>
>> - - -
>> Vice President Marketing & Publicity
>> Vice President Sponsor Relations
>> The Apache Software Foundation
>>
>> Tel +1 617 921 8656 | [hidden email]
>>
>> On Mon, Sep 9, 2019, at 03:22, Gilles Sadowski wrote:
>>> Hello.
>>>
>>> Le sam. 7 sept. 2019 à 13:29, Sally Khudairi <[hidden email]> a écrit :
>>>>
>>>> Thank you, Gilles. I appreciate you reaching out.
>>>>
>>>> Normally I encourage PMCs to not re-orient or "spindle" the feather where possible, but I understand that some legacy logos have a bit of a problem with positioning. For example, the Apache HTTP Server logo:
>>>>
>>>> - original logo https://twitter.com/apache_httpd/photo
>>>> - interim logo https://britewire.com/apache-http-server/
>>>> - new logo https://svn.apache.org/repos/asf/comdev/project-logos/originals/httpd.svg
>>>
>>> So is the choice between
>>> * use the exact same feather as the foundation's
>>> * not use anything that even remotely looks like feather
>>> ?
>>>
>>>> Whilst I understand the proposed design, I'm not *loving* the look of the logo, particularly as Apache Commons has such a massive footprint across so many projects.
>>>>
>>>> To that end, may I ask a favor?
>>>>
>>>> Would you and the Apache Commons PMC be amenable to considering having Central Services --a somewhat new sub-group of ASF Marketing & Publicity-- help you with creating a new logo?
>>>
>>> Help from experts is welcome.
>>>
>>>> If you are not in a rush, we can see how we can help you.
>>>
>>> I don't think we should be in a rush, as the proposal to change the
>>> projects' logo(s) dates back from 3 years ago.[1]
>>>
>>>> ApacheCon North America starts on Monday, and we can start the discussions on what your requirements are and the best way to meet your needs.
>>>
>>> I can only speak about of my preferences:[2]
>>> * At most 2 or 3 graphical elements reminiscent of the project
>>> (feather included, if applicable)
>>> * No URL
>>> * Clearly visible at all (reasonable) resolutions [3]
>>> * Combinable with 1 additional grahical element (so that we can
>>> easily create one logo for each of the many components hosted
>>> in "Commons" [4]
>>>
>>>> ApacheCon Europe is taking place in October: I was thinking the timeframe between the two events (~6 weeks) would be sufficient for us to have a few proposals developed.
>>>
>>> Great.
>>>
>>>> If this works for you, we can get started this week.
>>>
>>> Fine with me.
>>>
>>>> If not, I understand. You may proceed with the proposed logo with the intention of revisiting and updating in future.
>>>
>>> Now is a good time.
>>> Indeed, that logo is not favoured by the community (at least the few
>>> who voiced their opinion).[5]  And, IMHO, the alternatives are failing
>>> what I consider basic requirements (cf. above).[6]
>>>
>>>> Many kind thanks again for your attention and consideration.
>>>>
>>>> Warm regards,
>>>> Sally
>>>
>>> Thank you very much for the offer,
>>> Gilles
>>>
>>> [1] https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/COMMONSSITE-86
>>> [2] Discussion thread:
>>>    https://markmail.org/message/twsre7wl6jmue6mp
>>> [3] For example, when I look at the top left of the Apache's JIRA pages:
>>>    https://issues.apache.org/jira/secure/Dashboard.jspa
>>> I see either a bad logo, or an inadequate use of it.
>>> [4] See e.g. http://commons.apache.org/proper/commons-rng/
>>> [5] Lacking feedback, I opted for an upgrade of the feather using
>>> the foundation's new graphics keeping the old (and supposedly
>>> consensual) idea for the feather orientation.
>>> [6] Even though it's great that Loic Guibert was willing to provide
>>> idea and a few examples.
>>>
>>>>
>>>> Tel +1 617 921 8656 | [hidden email]
>>>>
>>>> On Fri, Sep 6, 2019, at 17:18, Gilles Sadowski wrote:
>>>>> Hello.
>>>>>
>>>>> We, at Apache Commons, would like to know whether an Apache
>>>>> project  is authorized to extract graphical elements from the
>>>>> foundation's logo, apply some transformation to them, and use
>>>>> the result in order to compose its own logo.
>>>>>
>>>>> Case in point is here:
>>>>>    https://svn.apache.org/repos/asf/comdev/project-logos/originals/commons.svg
>>>>> (where the feather has been rotated).
>>>>>
>>>>> Does it constitute a breach of the recommendations published in
>>>>> the "Identity Style Guide"?[1]
>>>>>
>>>>> Thank you,
>>>>> Gilles Sadowski
>>>>>
>>>>> [1] https://apache.org/foundation/press/kit/ApacheFoundation_StyleGuide.pdf
>>>>>
>
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Re: Advice on project logo

garydgregory
The KISS solution would be to get "Central" to produce not just the Commons
logo but one for each component and be done. The even simpler path is to
forgo component specific logos, especially since Commons is just one Apache
project. I like simpler...

Gary

On Mon, Sep 9, 2019, 15:08 Rob Tompkins <[hidden email]> wrote:

>
>
> > On Sep 9, 2019, at 11:31 AM, Gilles Sadowski <[hidden email]>
> wrote:
> >
> > Hi.
> >
> > Le lun. 9 sept. 2019 à 12:35, Sally Khudairi <[hidden email]> a écrit :
> >>
> >> Thank you, Gilles.
> >>
> >> I'm copying Kenneth Paskett, creative lead from Central Services. I was
> talking to him about this opportunity yesterday: we will be happy to
> explore options for a future design.
>
> Just curious, who on this transmission is at ApacheCon this week. Having
> worked with Sally in the past on an ad-hoc logo for the DC road show
> earlier this year, I could sit down with her and see if we can get
> something analogous to what we have in place currently that satisfies
> everyone (granted my designs tend to be minimalist in nature).
>
> Thoughts?
>
> -Rob
>
> >>
> >> I'm not saying "don't use anything that remotely looks like the
> feather". It's important that if we choose to use an ASF-feather-inspired
> motif that it doesn't look like it's a "broken" version of the original.
> >
> > It was certainly not the intention.
> > It is difficult/impossible to argue on things that boil down
> > to a matter of taste or arbitrary policy (like the kinds of
> > reuse that are allowed and not by the rights owner).
> >
> >> Ways around that issue could involve the shape or color of the feather,
> among other adjustments.
> >
> > Exactly what I meant: IMHO those changes are more "broken"
> > than a rotation. ;-)
> > [But if they are allowed, then fine.]
> >
> >> Thank you and the community for your trust. We look forward to working
> with you.
> >
> > Hopefully, preferences will be collected in the thread which I
> > mentioned in the previous message, and the community can
> > converge on a few ideas to help with the design.
> >
> > Best regards,
> > Gilles
> >
> >>
> >> Best,
> >> Sally
> >>
> >> - - -
> >> Vice President Marketing & Publicity
> >> Vice President Sponsor Relations
> >> The Apache Software Foundation
> >>
> >> Tel +1 617 921 8656 | [hidden email]
> >>
> >> On Mon, Sep 9, 2019, at 03:22, Gilles Sadowski wrote:
> >>> Hello.
> >>>
> >>> Le sam. 7 sept. 2019 à 13:29, Sally Khudairi <[hidden email]> a écrit :
> >>>>
> >>>> Thank you, Gilles. I appreciate you reaching out.
> >>>>
> >>>> Normally I encourage PMCs to not re-orient or "spindle" the feather
> where possible, but I understand that some legacy logos have a bit of a
> problem with positioning. For example, the Apache HTTP Server logo:
> >>>>
> >>>> - original logo https://twitter.com/apache_httpd/photo
> >>>> - interim logo https://britewire.com/apache-http-server/
> >>>> - new logo
> https://svn.apache.org/repos/asf/comdev/project-logos/originals/httpd.svg
> >>>
> >>> So is the choice between
> >>> * use the exact same feather as the foundation's
> >>> * not use anything that even remotely looks like feather
> >>> ?
> >>>
> >>>> Whilst I understand the proposed design, I'm not *loving* the look of
> the logo, particularly as Apache Commons has such a massive footprint
> across so many projects.
> >>>>
> >>>> To that end, may I ask a favor?
> >>>>
> >>>> Would you and the Apache Commons PMC be amenable to considering
> having Central Services --a somewhat new sub-group of ASF Marketing &
> Publicity-- help you with creating a new logo?
> >>>
> >>> Help from experts is welcome.
> >>>
> >>>> If you are not in a rush, we can see how we can help you.
> >>>
> >>> I don't think we should be in a rush, as the proposal to change the
> >>> projects' logo(s) dates back from 3 years ago.[1]
> >>>
> >>>> ApacheCon North America starts on Monday, and we can start the
> discussions on what your requirements are and the best way to meet your
> needs.
> >>>
> >>> I can only speak about of my preferences:[2]
> >>> * At most 2 or 3 graphical elements reminiscent of the project
> >>> (feather included, if applicable)
> >>> * No URL
> >>> * Clearly visible at all (reasonable) resolutions [3]
> >>> * Combinable with 1 additional grahical element (so that we can
> >>> easily create one logo for each of the many components hosted
> >>> in "Commons" [4]
> >>>
> >>>> ApacheCon Europe is taking place in October: I was thinking the
> timeframe between the two events (~6 weeks) would be sufficient for us to
> have a few proposals developed.
> >>>
> >>> Great.
> >>>
> >>>> If this works for you, we can get started this week.
> >>>
> >>> Fine with me.
> >>>
> >>>> If not, I understand. You may proceed with the proposed logo with the
> intention of revisiting and updating in future.
> >>>
> >>> Now is a good time.
> >>> Indeed, that logo is not favoured by the community (at least the few
> >>> who voiced their opinion).[5]  And, IMHO, the alternatives are failing
> >>> what I consider basic requirements (cf. above).[6]
> >>>
> >>>> Many kind thanks again for your attention and consideration.
> >>>>
> >>>> Warm regards,
> >>>> Sally
> >>>
> >>> Thank you very much for the offer,
> >>> Gilles
> >>>
> >>> [1] https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/COMMONSSITE-86
> >>> [2] Discussion thread:
> >>>    https://markmail.org/message/twsre7wl6jmue6mp
> >>> [3] For example, when I look at the top left of the Apache's JIRA
> pages:
> >>>    https://issues.apache.org/jira/secure/Dashboard.jspa
> >>> I see either a bad logo, or an inadequate use of it.
> >>> [4] See e.g. http://commons.apache.org/proper/commons-rng/
> >>> [5] Lacking feedback, I opted for an upgrade of the feather using
> >>> the foundation's new graphics keeping the old (and supposedly
> >>> consensual) idea for the feather orientation.
> >>> [6] Even though it's great that Loic Guibert was willing to provide
> >>> idea and a few examples.
> >>>
> >>>>
> >>>> Tel +1 617 921 8656 | [hidden email]
> >>>>
> >>>> On Fri, Sep 6, 2019, at 17:18, Gilles Sadowski wrote:
> >>>>> Hello.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> We, at Apache Commons, would like to know whether an Apache
> >>>>> project  is authorized to extract graphical elements from the
> >>>>> foundation's logo, apply some transformation to them, and use
> >>>>> the result in order to compose its own logo.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Case in point is here:
> >>>>>
> https://svn.apache.org/repos/asf/comdev/project-logos/originals/commons.svg
> >>>>> (where the feather has been rotated).
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Does it constitute a breach of the recommendations published in
> >>>>> the "Identity Style Guide"?[1]
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Thank you,
> >>>>> Gilles Sadowski
> >>>>>
> >>>>> [1]
> https://apache.org/foundation/press/kit/ApacheFoundation_StyleGuide.pdf
> >>>>>
> >
> > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> > To unsubscribe, e-mail: [hidden email]
> > For additional commands, e-mail: [hidden email]
> >
>
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: [hidden email]
> For additional commands, e-mail: [hidden email]
>
>
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Re: Advice on project logo

Gilles Sadowski-2
Le lun. 9 sept. 2019 à 21:17, Gary Gregory <[hidden email]> a écrit :
>
> The KISS solution would be to get "Central" to produce not just the Commons
> logo but one for each component and be done.

+1

Especially if the future is that "Central Services" will provide logos
for all the projects.

> The even simpler path is to
> forgo component specific logos, especially since Commons is just one Apache
> project. I like simpler...

In theory; but in practice, we know that every component  has
its own "personality", and that there is no integration and reuse
between them.  Great if a unique logo could be the start for sharing
other things...
However, more realistically, components will continue their
independent life (for good reasons probably), and a single logo
would be misrepresenting the variety of "Commons" contents
(subject matters as well as development management).

Regards,
Gilles

>
> Gary
>
> On Mon, Sep 9, 2019, 15:08 Rob Tompkins <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> >
> >
> > > On Sep 9, 2019, at 11:31 AM, Gilles Sadowski <[hidden email]>
> > wrote:
> > >
> > > Hi.
> > >
> > > Le lun. 9 sept. 2019 à 12:35, Sally Khudairi <[hidden email]> a écrit :
> > >>
> > >> Thank you, Gilles.
> > >>
> > >> I'm copying Kenneth Paskett, creative lead from Central Services. I was
> > talking to him about this opportunity yesterday: we will be happy to
> > explore options for a future design.
> >
> > Just curious, who on this transmission is at ApacheCon this week. Having
> > worked with Sally in the past on an ad-hoc logo for the DC road show
> > earlier this year, I could sit down with her and see if we can get
> > something analogous to what we have in place currently that satisfies
> > everyone (granted my designs tend to be minimalist in nature).
> >
> > Thoughts?
> >
> > -Rob
> >
> > >>
> > >> I'm not saying "don't use anything that remotely looks like the
> > feather". It's important that if we choose to use an ASF-feather-inspired
> > motif that it doesn't look like it's a "broken" version of the original.
> > >
> > > It was certainly not the intention.
> > > It is difficult/impossible to argue on things that boil down
> > > to a matter of taste or arbitrary policy (like the kinds of
> > > reuse that are allowed and not by the rights owner).
> > >
> > >> Ways around that issue could involve the shape or color of the feather,
> > among other adjustments.
> > >
> > > Exactly what I meant: IMHO those changes are more "broken"
> > > than a rotation. ;-)
> > > [But if they are allowed, then fine.]
> > >
> > >> Thank you and the community for your trust. We look forward to working
> > with you.
> > >
> > > Hopefully, preferences will be collected in the thread which I
> > > mentioned in the previous message, and the community can
> > > converge on a few ideas to help with the design.
> > >
> > > Best regards,
> > > Gilles
> > >
> > >>
> > >> Best,
> > >> Sally
> > >>
> > >> - - -
> > >> Vice President Marketing & Publicity
> > >> Vice President Sponsor Relations
> > >> The Apache Software Foundation
> > >>
> > >> Tel +1 617 921 8656 | [hidden email]
> > >>
> > >> On Mon, Sep 9, 2019, at 03:22, Gilles Sadowski wrote:
> > >>> Hello.
> > >>>
> > >>> Le sam. 7 sept. 2019 à 13:29, Sally Khudairi <[hidden email]> a écrit :
> > >>>>
> > >>>> Thank you, Gilles. I appreciate you reaching out.
> > >>>>
> > >>>> Normally I encourage PMCs to not re-orient or "spindle" the feather
> > where possible, but I understand that some legacy logos have a bit of a
> > problem with positioning. For example, the Apache HTTP Server logo:
> > >>>>
> > >>>> - original logo https://twitter.com/apache_httpd/photo
> > >>>> - interim logo https://britewire.com/apache-http-server/
> > >>>> - new logo
> > https://svn.apache.org/repos/asf/comdev/project-logos/originals/httpd.svg
> > >>>
> > >>> So is the choice between
> > >>> * use the exact same feather as the foundation's
> > >>> * not use anything that even remotely looks like feather
> > >>> ?
> > >>>
> > >>>> Whilst I understand the proposed design, I'm not *loving* the look of
> > the logo, particularly as Apache Commons has such a massive footprint
> > across so many projects.
> > >>>>
> > >>>> To that end, may I ask a favor?
> > >>>>
> > >>>> Would you and the Apache Commons PMC be amenable to considering
> > having Central Services --a somewhat new sub-group of ASF Marketing &
> > Publicity-- help you with creating a new logo?
> > >>>
> > >>> Help from experts is welcome.
> > >>>
> > >>>> If you are not in a rush, we can see how we can help you.
> > >>>
> > >>> I don't think we should be in a rush, as the proposal to change the
> > >>> projects' logo(s) dates back from 3 years ago.[1]
> > >>>
> > >>>> ApacheCon North America starts on Monday, and we can start the
> > discussions on what your requirements are and the best way to meet your
> > needs.
> > >>>
> > >>> I can only speak about of my preferences:[2]
> > >>> * At most 2 or 3 graphical elements reminiscent of the project
> > >>> (feather included, if applicable)
> > >>> * No URL
> > >>> * Clearly visible at all (reasonable) resolutions [3]
> > >>> * Combinable with 1 additional grahical element (so that we can
> > >>> easily create one logo for each of the many components hosted
> > >>> in "Commons" [4]
> > >>>
> > >>>> ApacheCon Europe is taking place in October: I was thinking the
> > timeframe between the two events (~6 weeks) would be sufficient for us to
> > have a few proposals developed.
> > >>>
> > >>> Great.
> > >>>
> > >>>> If this works for you, we can get started this week.
> > >>>
> > >>> Fine with me.
> > >>>
> > >>>> If not, I understand. You may proceed with the proposed logo with the
> > intention of revisiting and updating in future.
> > >>>
> > >>> Now is a good time.
> > >>> Indeed, that logo is not favoured by the community (at least the few
> > >>> who voiced their opinion).[5]  And, IMHO, the alternatives are failing
> > >>> what I consider basic requirements (cf. above).[6]
> > >>>
> > >>>> Many kind thanks again for your attention and consideration.
> > >>>>
> > >>>> Warm regards,
> > >>>> Sally
> > >>>
> > >>> Thank you very much for the offer,
> > >>> Gilles
> > >>>
> > >>> [1] https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/COMMONSSITE-86
> > >>> [2] Discussion thread:
> > >>>    https://markmail.org/message/twsre7wl6jmue6mp
> > >>> [3] For example, when I look at the top left of the Apache's JIRA
> > pages:
> > >>>    https://issues.apache.org/jira/secure/Dashboard.jspa
> > >>> I see either a bad logo, or an inadequate use of it.
> > >>> [4] See e.g. http://commons.apache.org/proper/commons-rng/
> > >>> [5] Lacking feedback, I opted for an upgrade of the feather using
> > >>> the foundation's new graphics keeping the old (and supposedly
> > >>> consensual) idea for the feather orientation.
> > >>> [6] Even though it's great that Loic Guibert was willing to provide
> > >>> idea and a few examples.
> > >>>
> > >>>>
> > >>>> Tel +1 617 921 8656 | [hidden email]
> > >>>>
> > >>>> On Fri, Sep 6, 2019, at 17:18, Gilles Sadowski wrote:
> > >>>>> Hello.
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> We, at Apache Commons, would like to know whether an Apache
> > >>>>> project  is authorized to extract graphical elements from the
> > >>>>> foundation's logo, apply some transformation to them, and use
> > >>>>> the result in order to compose its own logo.
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> Case in point is here:
> > >>>>>
> > https://svn.apache.org/repos/asf/comdev/project-logos/originals/commons.svg
> > >>>>> (where the feather has been rotated).
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> Does it constitute a breach of the recommendations published in
> > >>>>> the "Identity Style Guide"?[1]
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> Thank you,
> > >>>>> Gilles Sadowski
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> [1]
> > https://apache.org/foundation/press/kit/ApacheFoundation_StyleGuide.pdf
> > >>>>>
> > >
> > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> > > To unsubscribe, e-mail: [hidden email]
> > > For additional commands, e-mail: [hidden email]
> > >
> >
> >
> > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> > To unsubscribe, e-mail: [hidden email]
> > For additional commands, e-mail: [hidden email]
> >
> >

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Re: Advice on project logo

Kenneth Paskett
In reply to this post by Rob Tompkins
Hi Rob -

I'm here at ApacheCon this week, and would be happy to sit down with you
and others from the Commons group to talk about your logo update. Let me
know what time works best for your group.

~Kenneth



On Mon, Sep 9, 2019 at 12:08 PM Rob Tompkins <[hidden email]> wrote:

>
>
> > On Sep 9, 2019, at 11:31 AM, Gilles Sadowski <[hidden email]>
> wrote:
> >
> > Hi.
> >
> > Le lun. 9 sept. 2019 à 12:35, Sally Khudairi <[hidden email]> a écrit :
> >>
> >> Thank you, Gilles.
> >>
> >> I'm copying Kenneth Paskett, creative lead from Central Services. I was
> talking to him about this opportunity yesterday: we will be happy to
> explore options for a future design.
>
> Just curious, who on this transmission is at ApacheCon this week. Having
> worked with Sally in the past on an ad-hoc logo for the DC road show
> earlier this year, I could sit down with her and see if we can get
> something analogous to what we have in place currently that satisfies
> everyone (granted my designs tend to be minimalist in nature).
>
> Thoughts?
>
> -Rob
>
> >>
> >> I'm not saying "don't use anything that remotely looks like the
> feather". It's important that if we choose to use an ASF-feather-inspired
> motif that it doesn't look like it's a "broken" version of the original.
> >
> > It was certainly not the intention.
> > It is difficult/impossible to argue on things that boil down
> > to a matter of taste or arbitrary policy (like the kinds of
> > reuse that are allowed and not by the rights owner).
> >
> >> Ways around that issue could involve the shape or color of the feather,
> among other adjustments.
> >
> > Exactly what I meant: IMHO those changes are more "broken"
> > than a rotation. ;-)
> > [But if they are allowed, then fine.]
> >
> >> Thank you and the community for your trust. We look forward to working
> with you.
> >
> > Hopefully, preferences will be collected in the thread which I
> > mentioned in the previous message, and the community can
> > converge on a few ideas to help with the design.
> >
> > Best regards,
> > Gilles
> >
> >>
> >> Best,
> >> Sally
> >>
> >> - - -
> >> Vice President Marketing & Publicity
> >> Vice President Sponsor Relations
> >> The Apache Software Foundation
> >>
> >> Tel +1 617 921 8656 | [hidden email]
> >>
> >> On Mon, Sep 9, 2019, at 03:22, Gilles Sadowski wrote:
> >>> Hello.
> >>>
> >>> Le sam. 7 sept. 2019 à 13:29, Sally Khudairi <[hidden email]> a écrit :
> >>>>
> >>>> Thank you, Gilles. I appreciate you reaching out.
> >>>>
> >>>> Normally I encourage PMCs to not re-orient or "spindle" the feather
> where possible, but I understand that some legacy logos have a bit of a
> problem with positioning. For example, the Apache HTTP Server logo:
> >>>>
> >>>> - original logo https://twitter.com/apache_httpd/photo
> >>>> - interim logo https://britewire.com/apache-http-server/
> >>>> - new logo
> https://svn.apache.org/repos/asf/comdev/project-logos/originals/httpd.svg
> >>>
> >>> So is the choice between
> >>> * use the exact same feather as the foundation's
> >>> * not use anything that even remotely looks like feather
> >>> ?
> >>>
> >>>> Whilst I understand the proposed design, I'm not *loving* the look of
> the logo, particularly as Apache Commons has such a massive footprint
> across so many projects.
> >>>>
> >>>> To that end, may I ask a favor?
> >>>>
> >>>> Would you and the Apache Commons PMC be amenable to considering
> having Central Services --a somewhat new sub-group of ASF Marketing &
> Publicity-- help you with creating a new logo?
> >>>
> >>> Help from experts is welcome.
> >>>
> >>>> If you are not in a rush, we can see how we can help you.
> >>>
> >>> I don't think we should be in a rush, as the proposal to change the
> >>> projects' logo(s) dates back from 3 years ago.[1]
> >>>
> >>>> ApacheCon North America starts on Monday, and we can start the
> discussions on what your requirements are and the best way to meet your
> needs.
> >>>
> >>> I can only speak about of my preferences:[2]
> >>> * At most 2 or 3 graphical elements reminiscent of the project
> >>> (feather included, if applicable)
> >>> * No URL
> >>> * Clearly visible at all (reasonable) resolutions [3]
> >>> * Combinable with 1 additional grahical element (so that we can
> >>> easily create one logo for each of the many components hosted
> >>> in "Commons" [4]
> >>>
> >>>> ApacheCon Europe is taking place in October: I was thinking the
> timeframe between the two events (~6 weeks) would be sufficient for us to
> have a few proposals developed.
> >>>
> >>> Great.
> >>>
> >>>> If this works for you, we can get started this week.
> >>>
> >>> Fine with me.
> >>>
> >>>> If not, I understand. You may proceed with the proposed logo with the
> intention of revisiting and updating in future.
> >>>
> >>> Now is a good time.
> >>> Indeed, that logo is not favoured by the community (at least the few
> >>> who voiced their opinion).[5]  And, IMHO, the alternatives are failing
> >>> what I consider basic requirements (cf. above).[6]
> >>>
> >>>> Many kind thanks again for your attention and consideration.
> >>>>
> >>>> Warm regards,
> >>>> Sally
> >>>
> >>> Thank you very much for the offer,
> >>> Gilles
> >>>
> >>> [1] https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/COMMONSSITE-86
> >>> [2] Discussion thread:
> >>>    https://markmail.org/message/twsre7wl6jmue6mp
> >>> [3] For example, when I look at the top left of the Apache's JIRA
> pages:
> >>>    https://issues.apache.org/jira/secure/Dashboard.jspa
> >>> I see either a bad logo, or an inadequate use of it.
> >>> [4] See e.g. http://commons.apache.org/proper/commons-rng/
> >>> [5] Lacking feedback, I opted for an upgrade of the feather using
> >>> the foundation's new graphics keeping the old (and supposedly
> >>> consensual) idea for the feather orientation.
> >>> [6] Even though it's great that Loic Guibert was willing to provide
> >>> idea and a few examples.
> >>>
> >>>>
> >>>> Tel +1 617 921 8656 | [hidden email]
> >>>>
> >>>> On Fri, Sep 6, 2019, at 17:18, Gilles Sadowski wrote:
> >>>>> Hello.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> We, at Apache Commons, would like to know whether an Apache
> >>>>> project  is authorized to extract graphical elements from the
> >>>>> foundation's logo, apply some transformation to them, and use
> >>>>> the result in order to compose its own logo.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Case in point is here:
> >>>>>
> https://svn.apache.org/repos/asf/comdev/project-logos/originals/commons.svg
> >>>>> (where the feather has been rotated).
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Does it constitute a breach of the recommendations published in
> >>>>> the "Identity Style Guide"?[1]
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Thank you,
> >>>>> Gilles Sadowski
> >>>>>
> >>>>> [1]
> https://apache.org/foundation/press/kit/ApacheFoundation_StyleGuide.pdf
> >>>>>
> >
> > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> > To unsubscribe, e-mail: [hidden email]
> > For additional commands, e-mail: [hidden email]
> >
>
>
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Re: Advice on project logo

Rob Tompkins
Sure I’d be happy to talk at some time tomorrow. Let me know when you’re free. I’ll likely be in the hackathon room for a good portion of the day.

Cheers,
-Rob

> On Sep 9, 2019, at 2:47 PM, Kenneth Paskett <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> Hi Rob -
>
> I'm here at ApacheCon this week, and would be happy to sit down with you and others from the Commons group to talk about your logo update. Let me know what time works best for your group.
>
> ~Kenneth
>
>
>
> On Mon, Sep 9, 2019 at 12:08 PM Rob Tompkins <[hidden email] <mailto:[hidden email]>> wrote:
>
>
> > On Sep 9, 2019, at 11:31 AM, Gilles Sadowski <[hidden email] <mailto:[hidden email]>> wrote:
> >
> > Hi.
> >
> > Le lun. 9 sept. 2019 à 12:35, Sally Khudairi <[hidden email] <mailto:[hidden email]>> a écrit :
> >>
> >> Thank you, Gilles.
> >>
> >> I'm copying Kenneth Paskett, creative lead from Central Services. I was talking to him about this opportunity yesterday: we will be happy to explore options for a future design.
>
> Just curious, who on this transmission is at ApacheCon this week. Having worked with Sally in the past on an ad-hoc logo for the DC road show earlier this year, I could sit down with her and see if we can get something analogous to what we have in place currently that satisfies everyone (granted my designs tend to be minimalist in nature).
>
> Thoughts?
>
> -Rob
>
> >>
> >> I'm not saying "don't use anything that remotely looks like the feather". It's important that if we choose to use an ASF-feather-inspired motif that it doesn't look like it's a "broken" version of the original.
> >
> > It was certainly not the intention.
> > It is difficult/impossible to argue on things that boil down
> > to a matter of taste or arbitrary policy (like the kinds of
> > reuse that are allowed and not by the rights owner).
> >
> >> Ways around that issue could involve the shape or color of the feather, among other adjustments.
> >
> > Exactly what I meant: IMHO those changes are more "broken"
> > than a rotation. ;-)
> > [But if they are allowed, then fine.]
> >
> >> Thank you and the community for your trust. We look forward to working with you.
> >
> > Hopefully, preferences will be collected in the thread which I
> > mentioned in the previous message, and the community can
> > converge on a few ideas to help with the design.
> >
> > Best regards,
> > Gilles
> >
> >>
> >> Best,
> >> Sally
> >>
> >> - - -
> >> Vice President Marketing & Publicity
> >> Vice President Sponsor Relations
> >> The Apache Software Foundation
> >>
> >> Tel +1 617 921 8656 | [hidden email] <mailto:[hidden email]>
> >>
> >> On Mon, Sep 9, 2019, at 03:22, Gilles Sadowski wrote:
> >>> Hello.
> >>>
> >>> Le sam. 7 sept. 2019 à 13:29, Sally Khudairi <[hidden email] <mailto:[hidden email]>> a écrit :
> >>>>
> >>>> Thank you, Gilles. I appreciate you reaching out.
> >>>>
> >>>> Normally I encourage PMCs to not re-orient or "spindle" the feather where possible, but I understand that some legacy logos have a bit of a problem with positioning. For example, the Apache HTTP Server logo:
> >>>>
> >>>> - original logo https://twitter.com/apache_httpd/photo <https://twitter.com/apache_httpd/photo>
> >>>> - interim logo https://britewire.com/apache-http-server/ <https://britewire.com/apache-http-server/>
> >>>> - new logo https://svn.apache.org/repos/asf/comdev/project-logos/originals/httpd.svg <https://svn.apache.org/repos/asf/comdev/project-logos/originals/httpd.svg>
> >>>
> >>> So is the choice between
> >>> * use the exact same feather as the foundation's
> >>> * not use anything that even remotely looks like feather
> >>> ?
> >>>
> >>>> Whilst I understand the proposed design, I'm not *loving* the look of the logo, particularly as Apache Commons has such a massive footprint across so many projects.
> >>>>
> >>>> To that end, may I ask a favor?
> >>>>
> >>>> Would you and the Apache Commons PMC be amenable to considering having Central Services --a somewhat new sub-group of ASF Marketing & Publicity-- help you with creating a new logo?
> >>>
> >>> Help from experts is welcome.
> >>>
> >>>> If you are not in a rush, we can see how we can help you.
> >>>
> >>> I don't think we should be in a rush, as the proposal to change the
> >>> projects' logo(s) dates back from 3 years ago.[1]
> >>>
> >>>> ApacheCon North America starts on Monday, and we can start the discussions on what your requirements are and the best way to meet your needs.
> >>>
> >>> I can only speak about of my preferences:[2]
> >>> * At most 2 or 3 graphical elements reminiscent of the project
> >>> (feather included, if applicable)
> >>> * No URL
> >>> * Clearly visible at all (reasonable) resolutions [3]
> >>> * Combinable with 1 additional grahical element (so that we can
> >>> easily create one logo for each of the many components hosted
> >>> in "Commons" [4]
> >>>
> >>>> ApacheCon Europe is taking place in October: I was thinking the timeframe between the two events (~6 weeks) would be sufficient for us to have a few proposals developed.
> >>>
> >>> Great.
> >>>
> >>>> If this works for you, we can get started this week.
> >>>
> >>> Fine with me.
> >>>
> >>>> If not, I understand. You may proceed with the proposed logo with the intention of revisiting and updating in future.
> >>>
> >>> Now is a good time.
> >>> Indeed, that logo is not favoured by the community (at least the few
> >>> who voiced their opinion).[5]  And, IMHO, the alternatives are failing
> >>> what I consider basic requirements (cf. above).[6]
> >>>
> >>>> Many kind thanks again for your attention and consideration.
> >>>>
> >>>> Warm regards,
> >>>> Sally
> >>>
> >>> Thank you very much for the offer,
> >>> Gilles
> >>>
> >>> [1] https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/COMMONSSITE-86 <https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/COMMONSSITE-86>
> >>> [2] Discussion thread:
> >>>    https://markmail.org/message/twsre7wl6jmue6mp <https://markmail.org/message/twsre7wl6jmue6mp>
> >>> [3] For example, when I look at the top left of the Apache's JIRA pages:
> >>>    https://issues.apache.org/jira/secure/Dashboard.jspa <https://issues.apache.org/jira/secure/Dashboard.jspa>
> >>> I see either a bad logo, or an inadequate use of it.
> >>> [4] See e.g. http://commons.apache.org/proper/commons-rng/ <http://commons.apache.org/proper/commons-rng/>
> >>> [5] Lacking feedback, I opted for an upgrade of the feather using
> >>> the foundation's new graphics keeping the old (and supposedly
> >>> consensual) idea for the feather orientation.
> >>> [6] Even though it's great that Loic Guibert was willing to provide
> >>> idea and a few examples.
> >>>
> >>>>
> >>>> Tel +1 617 921 8656 | [hidden email] <mailto:[hidden email]>
> >>>>
> >>>> On Fri, Sep 6, 2019, at 17:18, Gilles Sadowski wrote:
> >>>>> Hello.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> We, at Apache Commons, would like to know whether an Apache
> >>>>> project  is authorized to extract graphical elements from the
> >>>>> foundation's logo, apply some transformation to them, and use
> >>>>> the result in order to compose its own logo.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Case in point is here:
> >>>>>    https://svn.apache.org/repos/asf/comdev/project-logos/originals/commons.svg <https://svn.apache.org/repos/asf/comdev/project-logos/originals/commons.svg>
> >>>>> (where the feather has been rotated).
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Does it constitute a breach of the recommendations published in
> >>>>> the "Identity Style Guide"?[1]
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Thank you,
> >>>>> Gilles Sadowski
> >>>>>
> >>>>> [1] https://apache.org/foundation/press/kit/ApacheFoundation_StyleGuide.pdf <https://apache.org/foundation/press/kit/ApacheFoundation_StyleGuide.pdf>
> >>>>>
> >
> > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> > To unsubscribe, e-mail: [hidden email] <mailto:[hidden email]>
> > For additional commands, e-mail: [hidden email] <mailto:[hidden email]>
> >
>

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Re: Advice on project logo

Rob Tompkins
In reply to this post by garydgregory
Here’s a potential logo that I mocked up and sent to Kenneth. Does anyone have any opinions on this? I felt like something similar to the one that Sally sent across for the HTTP project seemed reasonable. 

Also, I think that it’s not exactly adherent to the style guide and that Kenneth plans on putting something together that’s analogous and adhere’s to the style guide.  

Thoughts? -Rob



On Sep 9, 2019, at 3:17 PM, Gary Gregory <[hidden email]> wrote:

The KISS solution would be to get "Central" to produce not just the Commons
logo but one for each component and be done. The even simpler path is to
forgo component specific logos, especially since Commons is just one Apache
project. I like simpler...

Gary

On Mon, Sep 9, 2019, 15:08 Rob Tompkins <[hidden email]> wrote:



On Sep 9, 2019, at 11:31 AM, Gilles Sadowski <[hidden email]>
wrote:

Hi.

Le lun. 9 sept. 2019 à 12:35, Sally Khudairi <[hidden email]> a écrit :

Thank you, Gilles.

I'm copying Kenneth Paskett, creative lead from Central Services. I was
talking to him about this opportunity yesterday: we will be happy to
explore options for a future design.

Just curious, who on this transmission is at ApacheCon this week. Having
worked with Sally in the past on an ad-hoc logo for the DC road show
earlier this year, I could sit down with her and see if we can get
something analogous to what we have in place currently that satisfies
everyone (granted my designs tend to be minimalist in nature).

Thoughts?

-Rob


I'm not saying "don't use anything that remotely looks like the
feather". It's important that if we choose to use an ASF-feather-inspired
motif that it doesn't look like it's a "broken" version of the original.

It was certainly not the intention.
It is difficult/impossible to argue on things that boil down
to a matter of taste or arbitrary policy (like the kinds of
reuse that are allowed and not by the rights owner).

Ways around that issue could involve the shape or color of the feather,
among other adjustments.

Exactly what I meant: IMHO those changes are more "broken"
than a rotation. ;-)
[But if they are allowed, then fine.]

Thank you and the community for your trust. We look forward to working
with you.

Hopefully, preferences will be collected in the thread which I
mentioned in the previous message, and the community can
converge on a few ideas to help with the design.

Best regards,
Gilles


Best,
Sally

- - -
Vice President Marketing & Publicity
Vice President Sponsor Relations
The Apache Software Foundation

Tel +1 617 921 8656 | [hidden email]

On Mon, Sep 9, 2019, at 03:22, Gilles Sadowski wrote:
Hello.

Le sam. 7 sept. 2019 à 13:29, Sally Khudairi <[hidden email]> a écrit :

Thank you, Gilles. I appreciate you reaching out.

Normally I encourage PMCs to not re-orient or "spindle" the feather
where possible, but I understand that some legacy logos have a bit of a
problem with positioning. For example, the Apache HTTP Server logo:

- original logo https://twitter.com/apache_httpd/photo
- interim logo https://britewire.com/apache-http-server/
- new logo
https://svn.apache.org/repos/asf/comdev/project-logos/originals/httpd.svg

So is the choice between
* use the exact same feather as the foundation's
* not use anything that even remotely looks like feather
?

Whilst I understand the proposed design, I'm not *loving* the look of
the logo, particularly as Apache Commons has such a massive footprint
across so many projects.

To that end, may I ask a favor?

Would you and the Apache Commons PMC be amenable to considering
having Central Services --a somewhat new sub-group of ASF Marketing &
Publicity-- help you with creating a new logo?

Help from experts is welcome.

If you are not in a rush, we can see how we can help you.

I don't think we should be in a rush, as the proposal to change the
projects' logo(s) dates back from 3 years ago.[1]

ApacheCon North America starts on Monday, and we can start the
discussions on what your requirements are and the best way to meet your
needs.

I can only speak about of my preferences:[2]
* At most 2 or 3 graphical elements reminiscent of the project
(feather included, if applicable)
* No URL
* Clearly visible at all (reasonable) resolutions [3]
* Combinable with 1 additional grahical element (so that we can
easily create one logo for each of the many components hosted
in "Commons" [4]

ApacheCon Europe is taking place in October: I was thinking the
timeframe between the two events (~6 weeks) would be sufficient for us to
have a few proposals developed.

Great.

If this works for you, we can get started this week.

Fine with me.

If not, I understand. You may proceed with the proposed logo with the
intention of revisiting and updating in future.

Now is a good time.
Indeed, that logo is not favoured by the community (at least the few
who voiced their opinion).[5]  And, IMHO, the alternatives are failing
what I consider basic requirements (cf. above).[6]

Many kind thanks again for your attention and consideration.

Warm regards,
Sally

Thank you very much for the offer,
Gilles

[1] https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/COMMONSSITE-86
[2] Discussion thread:
  https://markmail.org/message/twsre7wl6jmue6mp
[3] For example, when I look at the top left of the Apache's JIRA
pages:
  https://issues.apache.org/jira/secure/Dashboard.jspa
I see either a bad logo, or an inadequate use of it.
[4] See e.g. http://commons.apache.org/proper/commons-rng/
[5] Lacking feedback, I opted for an upgrade of the feather using
the foundation's new graphics keeping the old (and supposedly
consensual) idea for the feather orientation.
[6] Even though it's great that Loic Guibert was willing to provide
idea and a few examples.


Tel +1 617 921 8656 | [hidden email]

On Fri, Sep 6, 2019, at 17:18, Gilles Sadowski wrote:
Hello.

We, at Apache Commons, would like to know whether an Apache
project  is authorized to extract graphical elements from the
foundation's logo, apply some transformation to them, and use
the result in order to compose its own logo.

Case in point is here:

https://svn.apache.org/repos/asf/comdev/project-logos/originals/commons.svg
(where the feather has been rotated).

Does it constitute a breach of the recommendations published in
the "Identity Style Guide"?[1]

Thank you,
Gilles Sadowski

[1]
https://apache.org/foundation/press/kit/ApacheFoundation_StyleGuide.pdf


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Re: Advice on project logo

garydgregory
I do not think we need "Project", we're not a 70s progrock band ;-)

On Sun, Sep 15, 2019, 07:45 Rob Tompkins <[hidden email]> wrote:
Here’s a potential logo that I mocked up and sent to Kenneth. Does anyone have any opinions on this? I felt like something similar to the one that Sally sent across for the HTTP project seemed reasonable. 

Also, I think that it’s not exactly adherent to the style guide and that Kenneth plans on putting something together that’s analogous and adhere’s to the style guide.  

Thoughts? -Rob



On Sep 9, 2019, at 3:17 PM, Gary Gregory <[hidden email]> wrote:

The KISS solution would be to get "Central" to produce not just the Commons
logo but one for each component and be done. The even simpler path is to
forgo component specific logos, especially since Commons is just one Apache
project. I like simpler...

Gary

On Mon, Sep 9, 2019, 15:08 Rob Tompkins <[hidden email]> wrote:



On Sep 9, 2019, at 11:31 AM, Gilles Sadowski <[hidden email]>
wrote:

Hi.

Le lun. 9 sept. 2019 à 12:35, Sally Khudairi <[hidden email]> a écrit :

Thank you, Gilles.

I'm copying Kenneth Paskett, creative lead from Central Services. I was
talking to him about this opportunity yesterday: we will be happy to
explore options for a future design.

Just curious, who on this transmission is at ApacheCon this week. Having
worked with Sally in the past on an ad-hoc logo for the DC road show
earlier this year, I could sit down with her and see if we can get
something analogous to what we have in place currently that satisfies
everyone (granted my designs tend to be minimalist in nature).

Thoughts?

-Rob


I'm not saying "don't use anything that remotely looks like the
feather". It's important that if we choose to use an ASF-feather-inspired
motif that it doesn't look like it's a "broken" version of the original.

It was certainly not the intention.
It is difficult/impossible to argue on things that boil down
to a matter of taste or arbitrary policy (like the kinds of
reuse that are allowed and not by the rights owner).

Ways around that issue could involve the shape or color of the feather,
among other adjustments.

Exactly what I meant: IMHO those changes are more "broken"
than a rotation. ;-)
[But if they are allowed, then fine.]

Thank you and the community for your trust. We look forward to working
with you.

Hopefully, preferences will be collected in the thread which I
mentioned in the previous message, and the community can
converge on a few ideas to help with the design.

Best regards,
Gilles


Best,
Sally

- - -
Vice President Marketing & Publicity
Vice President Sponsor Relations
The Apache Software Foundation

Tel +1 617 921 8656 | [hidden email]

On Mon, Sep 9, 2019, at 03:22, Gilles Sadowski wrote:
Hello.

Le sam. 7 sept. 2019 à 13:29, Sally Khudairi <[hidden email]> a écrit :

Thank you, Gilles. I appreciate you reaching out.

Normally I encourage PMCs to not re-orient or "spindle" the feather
where possible, but I understand that some legacy logos have a bit of a
problem with positioning. For example, the Apache HTTP Server logo:

- original logo https://twitter.com/apache_httpd/photo
- interim logo https://britewire.com/apache-http-server/
- new logo
https://svn.apache.org/repos/asf/comdev/project-logos/originals/httpd.svg

So is the choice between
* use the exact same feather as the foundation's
* not use anything that even remotely looks like feather
?

Whilst I understand the proposed design, I'm not *loving* the look of
the logo, particularly as Apache Commons has such a massive footprint
across so many projects.

To that end, may I ask a favor?

Would you and the Apache Commons PMC be amenable to considering
having Central Services --a somewhat new sub-group of ASF Marketing &
Publicity-- help you with creating a new logo?

Help from experts is welcome.

If you are not in a rush, we can see how we can help you.

I don't think we should be in a rush, as the proposal to change the
projects' logo(s) dates back from 3 years ago.[1]

ApacheCon North America starts on Monday, and we can start the
discussions on what your requirements are and the best way to meet your
needs.

I can only speak about of my preferences:[2]
* At most 2 or 3 graphical elements reminiscent of the project
(feather included, if applicable)
* No URL
* Clearly visible at all (reasonable) resolutions [3]
* Combinable with 1 additional grahical element (so that we can
easily create one logo for each of the many components hosted
in "Commons" [4]

ApacheCon Europe is taking place in October: I was thinking the
timeframe between the two events (~6 weeks) would be sufficient for us to
have a few proposals developed.

Great.

If this works for you, we can get started this week.

Fine with me.

If not, I understand. You may proceed with the proposed logo with the
intention of revisiting and updating in future.

Now is a good time.
Indeed, that logo is not favoured by the community (at least the few
who voiced their opinion).[5]  And, IMHO, the alternatives are failing
what I consider basic requirements (cf. above).[6]

Many kind thanks again for your attention and consideration.

Warm regards,
Sally

Thank you very much for the offer,
Gilles

[1] https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/COMMONSSITE-86
[2] Discussion thread:
  https://markmail.org/message/twsre7wl6jmue6mp
[3] For example, when I look at the top left of the Apache's JIRA
pages:
  https://issues.apache.org/jira/secure/Dashboard.jspa
I see either a bad logo, or an inadequate use of it.
[4] See e.g. http://commons.apache.org/proper/commons-rng/
[5] Lacking feedback, I opted for an upgrade of the feather using
the foundation's new graphics keeping the old (and supposedly
consensual) idea for the feather orientation.
[6] Even though it's great that Loic Guibert was willing to provide
idea and a few examples.


Tel +1 617 921 8656 | [hidden email]

On Fri, Sep 6, 2019, at 17:18, Gilles Sadowski wrote:
Hello.

We, at Apache Commons, would like to know whether an Apache
project  is authorized to extract graphical elements from the
foundation's logo, apply some transformation to them, and use
the result in order to compose its own logo.

Case in point is here:

https://svn.apache.org/repos/asf/comdev/project-logos/originals/commons.svg
(where the feather has been rotated).

Does it constitute a breach of the recommendations published in
the "Identity Style Guide"?[1]

Thank you,
Gilles Sadowski

[1]
https://apache.org/foundation/press/kit/ApacheFoundation_StyleGuide.pdf


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Re: Advice on project logo

garydgregory
That said, it is nice to look at :-)

On Sun, Sep 15, 2019, 08:10 Gary Gregory <[hidden email]> wrote:

> I do not think we need "Project", we're not a 70s progrock band ;-)
>
> On Sun, Sep 15, 2019, 07:45 Rob Tompkins <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
>> Here’s a potential logo that I mocked up and sent to Kenneth. Does anyone
>> have any opinions on this? I felt like something similar to the one that
>> Sally sent across for the HTTP project seemed reasonable.
>>
>> Also, I think that it’s not exactly adherent to the style guide and that
>> Kenneth plans on putting something together that’s analogous and adhere’s
>> to the style guide.
>>
>> Thoughts? -Rob
>>
>>
>>
>> On Sep 9, 2019, at 3:17 PM, Gary Gregory <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>
>> The KISS solution would be to get "Central" to produce not just the
>> Commons
>> logo but one for each component and be done. The even simpler path is to
>> forgo component specific logos, especially since Commons is just one
>> Apache
>> project. I like simpler...
>>
>> Gary
>>
>> On Mon, Sep 9, 2019, 15:08 Rob Tompkins <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>> On Sep 9, 2019, at 11:31 AM, Gilles Sadowski <[hidden email]>
>>
>> wrote:
>>
>>
>> Hi.
>>
>> Le lun. 9 sept. 2019 à 12:35, Sally Khudairi <[hidden email]> a écrit :
>>
>>
>> Thank you, Gilles.
>>
>> I'm copying Kenneth Paskett, creative lead from Central Services. I was
>>
>> talking to him about this opportunity yesterday: we will be happy to
>> explore options for a future design.
>>
>> Just curious, who on this transmission is at ApacheCon this week. Having
>> worked with Sally in the past on an ad-hoc logo for the DC road show
>> earlier this year, I could sit down with her and see if we can get
>> something analogous to what we have in place currently that satisfies
>> everyone (granted my designs tend to be minimalist in nature).
>>
>> Thoughts?
>>
>> -Rob
>>
>>
>> I'm not saying "don't use anything that remotely looks like the
>>
>> feather". It's important that if we choose to use an ASF-feather-inspired
>> motif that it doesn't look like it's a "broken" version of the original.
>>
>>
>> It was certainly not the intention.
>> It is difficult/impossible to argue on things that boil down
>> to a matter of taste or arbitrary policy (like the kinds of
>> reuse that are allowed and not by the rights owner).
>>
>> Ways around that issue could involve the shape or color of the feather,
>>
>> among other adjustments.
>>
>>
>> Exactly what I meant: IMHO those changes are more "broken"
>> than a rotation. ;-)
>> [But if they are allowed, then fine.]
>>
>> Thank you and the community for your trust. We look forward to working
>>
>> with you.
>>
>>
>> Hopefully, preferences will be collected in the thread which I
>> mentioned in the previous message, and the community can
>> converge on a few ideas to help with the design.
>>
>> Best regards,
>> Gilles
>>
>>
>> Best,
>> Sally
>>
>> - - -
>> Vice President Marketing & Publicity
>> Vice President Sponsor Relations
>> The Apache Software Foundation
>>
>> Tel +1 617 921 8656 | [hidden email]
>>
>> On Mon, Sep 9, 2019, at 03:22, Gilles Sadowski wrote:
>>
>> Hello.
>>
>> Le sam. 7 sept. 2019 à 13:29, Sally Khudairi <[hidden email]> a écrit :
>>
>>
>> Thank you, Gilles. I appreciate you reaching out.
>>
>> Normally I encourage PMCs to not re-orient or "spindle" the feather
>>
>> where possible, but I understand that some legacy logos have a bit of a
>> problem with positioning. For example, the Apache HTTP Server logo:
>>
>>
>> - original logo https://twitter.com/apache_httpd/photo
>> - interim logo https://britewire.com/apache-http-server/
>> - new logo
>>
>> https://svn.apache.org/repos/asf/comdev/project-logos/originals/httpd.svg
>>
>>
>> So is the choice between
>> * use the exact same feather as the foundation's
>> * not use anything that even remotely looks like feather
>> ?
>>
>> Whilst I understand the proposed design, I'm not *loving* the look of
>>
>> the logo, particularly as Apache Commons has such a massive footprint
>> across so many projects.
>>
>>
>> To that end, may I ask a favor?
>>
>> Would you and the Apache Commons PMC be amenable to considering
>>
>> having Central Services --a somewhat new sub-group of ASF Marketing &
>> Publicity-- help you with creating a new logo?
>>
>>
>> Help from experts is welcome.
>>
>> If you are not in a rush, we can see how we can help you.
>>
>>
>> I don't think we should be in a rush, as the proposal to change the
>> projects' logo(s) dates back from 3 years ago.[1]
>>
>> ApacheCon North America starts on Monday, and we can start the
>>
>> discussions on what your requirements are and the best way to meet your
>> needs.
>>
>>
>> I can only speak about of my preferences:[2]
>> * At most 2 or 3 graphical elements reminiscent of the project
>> (feather included, if applicable)
>> * No URL
>> * Clearly visible at all (reasonable) resolutions [3]
>> * Combinable with 1 additional grahical element (so that we can
>> easily create one logo for each of the many components hosted
>> in "Commons" [4]
>>
>> ApacheCon Europe is taking place in October: I was thinking the
>>
>> timeframe between the two events (~6 weeks) would be sufficient for us to
>> have a few proposals developed.
>>
>>
>> Great.
>>
>> If this works for you, we can get started this week.
>>
>>
>> Fine with me.
>>
>> If not, I understand. You may proceed with the proposed logo with the
>>
>> intention of revisiting and updating in future.
>>
>>
>> Now is a good time.
>> Indeed, that logo is not favoured by the community (at least the few
>> who voiced their opinion).[5]  And, IMHO, the alternatives are failing
>> what I consider basic requirements (cf. above).[6]
>>
>> Many kind thanks again for your attention and consideration.
>>
>> Warm regards,
>> Sally
>>
>>
>> Thank you very much for the offer,
>> Gilles
>>
>> [1] https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/COMMONSSITE-86
>> [2] Discussion thread:
>>   https://markmail.org/message/twsre7wl6jmue6mp
>> [3] For example, when I look at the top left of the Apache's JIRA
>>
>> pages:
>>
>>   https://issues.apache.org/jira/secure/Dashboard.jspa
>> I see either a bad logo, or an inadequate use of it.
>> [4] See e.g. http://commons.apache.org/proper/commons-rng/
>> [5] Lacking feedback, I opted for an upgrade of the feather using
>> the foundation's new graphics keeping the old (and supposedly
>> consensual) idea for the feather orientation.
>> [6] Even though it's great that Loic Guibert was willing to provide
>> idea and a few examples.
>>
>>
>> Tel +1 617 921 8656 | [hidden email]
>>
>> On Fri, Sep 6, 2019, at 17:18, Gilles Sadowski wrote:
>>
>> Hello.
>>
>> We, at Apache Commons, would like to know whether an Apache
>> project  is authorized to extract graphical elements from the
>> foundation's logo, apply some transformation to them, and use
>> the result in order to compose its own logo.
>>
>> Case in point is here:
>>
>>
>> https://svn.apache.org/repos/asf/comdev/project-logos/originals/commons.svg
>>
>> (where the feather has been rotated).
>>
>> Does it constitute a breach of the recommendations published in
>> the "Identity Style Guide"?[1]
>>
>> Thank you,
>> Gilles Sadowski
>>
>> [1]
>>
>> https://apache.org/foundation/press/kit/ApacheFoundation_StyleGuide.pdf
>>
>>
>>
>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: [hidden email]
>> For additional commands, e-mail: [hidden email]
>>
>>
>>
>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: [hidden email]
>> For additional commands, e-mail: [hidden email]
>>
>>
>>
>>
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Re: Advice on project logo

Rob Tompkins
In reply to this post by garydgregory


> On Sep 15, 2019, at 8:10 AM, Gary Gregory <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> I do not think we need "Project", we're not a 70s progrock band ;-)

I like the Alan Parsons Project, a little :-P

>
>> On Sun, Sep 15, 2019, 07:45 Rob Tompkins <[hidden email]> wrote:
>> Here’s a potential logo that I mocked up and sent to Kenneth. Does anyone have any opinions on this? I felt like something similar to the one that Sally sent across for the HTTP project seemed reasonable.
>>
>> Also, I think that it’s not exactly adherent to the style guide and that Kenneth plans on putting something together that’s analogous and adhere’s to the style guide.  
>>
>> Thoughts? -Rob
>>
>>
>>
>>> On Sep 9, 2019, at 3:17 PM, Gary Gregory <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>>
>>> The KISS solution would be to get "Central" to produce not just the Commons
>>> logo but one for each component and be done. The even simpler path is to
>>> forgo component specific logos, especially since Commons is just one Apache
>>> project. I like simpler...
>>>
>>> Gary
>>>
>>>> On Mon, Sep 9, 2019, 15:08 Rob Tompkins <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> On Sep 9, 2019, at 11:31 AM, Gilles Sadowski <[hidden email]>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> Hi.
>>>>>
>>>>>> Le lun. 9 sept. 2019 à 12:35, Sally Khudairi <[hidden email]> a écrit :
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Thank you, Gilles.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I'm copying Kenneth Paskett, creative lead from Central Services. I was
>>>> talking to him about this opportunity yesterday: we will be happy to
>>>> explore options for a future design.
>>>>
>>>> Just curious, who on this transmission is at ApacheCon this week. Having
>>>> worked with Sally in the past on an ad-hoc logo for the DC road show
>>>> earlier this year, I could sit down with her and see if we can get
>>>> something analogous to what we have in place currently that satisfies
>>>> everyone (granted my designs tend to be minimalist in nature).
>>>>
>>>> Thoughts?
>>>>
>>>> -Rob
>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I'm not saying "don't use anything that remotely looks like the
>>>> feather". It's important that if we choose to use an ASF-feather-inspired
>>>> motif that it doesn't look like it's a "broken" version of the original.
>>>>>
>>>>> It was certainly not the intention.
>>>>> It is difficult/impossible to argue on things that boil down
>>>>> to a matter of taste or arbitrary policy (like the kinds of
>>>>> reuse that are allowed and not by the rights owner).
>>>>>
>>>>>> Ways around that issue could involve the shape or color of the feather,
>>>> among other adjustments.
>>>>>
>>>>> Exactly what I meant: IMHO those changes are more "broken"
>>>>> than a rotation. ;-)
>>>>> [But if they are allowed, then fine.]
>>>>>
>>>>>> Thank you and the community for your trust. We look forward to working
>>>> with you.
>>>>>
>>>>> Hopefully, preferences will be collected in the thread which I
>>>>> mentioned in the previous message, and the community can
>>>>> converge on a few ideas to help with the design.
>>>>>
>>>>> Best regards,
>>>>> Gilles
>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Best,
>>>>>> Sally
>>>>>>
>>>>>> - - -
>>>>>> Vice President Marketing & Publicity
>>>>>> Vice President Sponsor Relations
>>>>>> The Apache Software Foundation
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Tel +1 617 921 8656 | [hidden email]
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Mon, Sep 9, 2019, at 03:22, Gilles Sadowski wrote:
>>>>>>> Hello.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Le sam. 7 sept. 2019 à 13:29, Sally Khudairi <[hidden email]> a écrit :
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Thank you, Gilles. I appreciate you reaching out.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Normally I encourage PMCs to not re-orient or "spindle" the feather
>>>> where possible, but I understand that some legacy logos have a bit of a
>>>> problem with positioning. For example, the Apache HTTP Server logo:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> - original logo https://twitter.com/apache_httpd/photo
>>>>>>>> - interim logo https://britewire.com/apache-http-server/
>>>>>>>> - new logo
>>>> https://svn.apache.org/repos/asf/comdev/project-logos/originals/httpd.svg
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> So is the choice between
>>>>>>> * use the exact same feather as the foundation's
>>>>>>> * not use anything that even remotely looks like feather
>>>>>>> ?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Whilst I understand the proposed design, I'm not *loving* the look of
>>>> the logo, particularly as Apache Commons has such a massive footprint
>>>> across so many projects.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> To that end, may I ask a favor?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Would you and the Apache Commons PMC be amenable to considering
>>>> having Central Services --a somewhat new sub-group of ASF Marketing &
>>>> Publicity-- help you with creating a new logo?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Help from experts is welcome.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> If you are not in a rush, we can see how we can help you.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I don't think we should be in a rush, as the proposal to change the
>>>>>>> projects' logo(s) dates back from 3 years ago.[1]
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> ApacheCon North America starts on Monday, and we can start the
>>>> discussions on what your requirements are and the best way to meet your
>>>> needs.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I can only speak about of my preferences:[2]
>>>>>>> * At most 2 or 3 graphical elements reminiscent of the project
>>>>>>> (feather included, if applicable)
>>>>>>> * No URL
>>>>>>> * Clearly visible at all (reasonable) resolutions [3]
>>>>>>> * Combinable with 1 additional grahical element (so that we can
>>>>>>> easily create one logo for each of the many components hosted
>>>>>>> in "Commons" [4]
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> ApacheCon Europe is taking place in October: I was thinking the
>>>> timeframe between the two events (~6 weeks) would be sufficient for us to
>>>> have a few proposals developed.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Great.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> If this works for you, we can get started this week.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Fine with me.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> If not, I understand. You may proceed with the proposed logo with the
>>>> intention of revisiting and updating in future.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Now is a good time.
>>>>>>> Indeed, that logo is not favoured by the community (at least the few
>>>>>>> who voiced their opinion).[5]  And, IMHO, the alternatives are failing
>>>>>>> what I consider basic requirements (cf. above).[6]
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Many kind thanks again for your attention and consideration.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Warm regards,
>>>>>>>> Sally
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Thank you very much for the offer,
>>>>>>> Gilles
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> [1] https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/COMMONSSITE-86
>>>>>>> [2] Discussion thread:
>>>>>>>   https://markmail.org/message/twsre7wl6jmue6mp
>>>>>>> [3] For example, when I look at the top left of the Apache's JIRA
>>>> pages:
>>>>>>>   https://issues.apache.org/jira/secure/Dashboard.jspa
>>>>>>> I see either a bad logo, or an inadequate use of it.
>>>>>>> [4] See e.g. http://commons.apache.org/proper/commons-rng/
>>>>>>> [5] Lacking feedback, I opted for an upgrade of the feather using
>>>>>>> the foundation's new graphics keeping the old (and supposedly
>>>>>>> consensual) idea for the feather orientation.
>>>>>>> [6] Even though it's great that Loic Guibert was willing to provide
>>>>>>> idea and a few examples.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Tel +1 617 921 8656 | [hidden email]
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On Fri, Sep 6, 2019, at 17:18, Gilles Sadowski wrote:
>>>>>>>>> Hello.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> We, at Apache Commons, would like to know whether an Apache
>>>>>>>>> project  is authorized to extract graphical elements from the
>>>>>>>>> foundation's logo, apply some transformation to them, and use
>>>>>>>>> the result in order to compose its own logo.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Case in point is here:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>> https://svn.apache.org/repos/asf/comdev/project-logos/originals/commons.svg
>>>>>>>>> (where the feather has been rotated).
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Does it constitute a breach of the recommendations published in
>>>>>>>>> the "Identity Style Guide"?[1]
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Thank you,
>>>>>>>>> Gilles Sadowski
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> [1]
>>>> https://apache.org/foundation/press/kit/ApacheFoundation_StyleGuide.pdf
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: [hidden email]
>>>>> For additional commands, e-mail: [hidden email]
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: [hidden email]
>>>> For additional commands, e-mail: [hidden email]
>>>>
>>>>
>>
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: [hidden email]
> For additional commands, e-mail: [hidden email]
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Re: Advice on project logo

Gilles Sadowski-2
Could we please use *one* (and the original) thread to collect ideas?

Gilles

Le dim. 15 sept. 2019 à 19:47, Rob Tompkins <[hidden email]> a écrit :

>
>
>
> > On Sep 15, 2019, at 8:10 AM, Gary Gregory <[hidden email]> wrote:
> >
> > I do not think we need "Project", we're not a 70s progrock band ;-)
>
> I like the Alan Parsons Project, a little :-P
> >
> >> On Sun, Sep 15, 2019, 07:45 Rob Tompkins <[hidden email]> wrote:
> >> Here’s a potential logo that I mocked up and sent to Kenneth. Does anyone have any opinions on this? I felt like something similar to the one that Sally sent across for the HTTP project seemed reasonable.
> >>
> >> Also, I think that it’s not exactly adherent to the style guide and that Kenneth plans on putting something together that’s analogous and adhere’s to the style guide.
> >>
> >> Thoughts? -Rob
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>> On Sep 9, 2019, at 3:17 PM, Gary Gregory <[hidden email]> wrote:
> >>>
> >>> The KISS solution would be to get "Central" to produce not just the Commons
> >>> logo but one for each component and be done. The even simpler path is to
> >>> forgo component specific logos, especially since Commons is just one Apache
> >>> project. I like simpler...
> >>>
> >>> Gary
> >>>
> >>>> On Mon, Sep 9, 2019, 15:08 Rob Tompkins <[hidden email]> wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>> On Sep 9, 2019, at 11:31 AM, Gilles Sadowski <[hidden email]>
> >>>> wrote:
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Hi.
> >>>>>
> >>>>>> Le lun. 9 sept. 2019 à 12:35, Sally Khudairi <[hidden email]> a écrit :
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Thank you, Gilles.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> I'm copying Kenneth Paskett, creative lead from Central Services. I was
> >>>> talking to him about this opportunity yesterday: we will be happy to
> >>>> explore options for a future design.
> >>>>
> >>>> Just curious, who on this transmission is at ApacheCon this week. Having
> >>>> worked with Sally in the past on an ad-hoc logo for the DC road show
> >>>> earlier this year, I could sit down with her and see if we can get
> >>>> something analogous to what we have in place currently that satisfies
> >>>> everyone (granted my designs tend to be minimalist in nature).
> >>>>
> >>>> Thoughts?
> >>>>
> >>>> -Rob
> >>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> I'm not saying "don't use anything that remotely looks like the
> >>>> feather". It's important that if we choose to use an ASF-feather-inspired
> >>>> motif that it doesn't look like it's a "broken" version of the original.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> It was certainly not the intention.
> >>>>> It is difficult/impossible to argue on things that boil down
> >>>>> to a matter of taste or arbitrary policy (like the kinds of
> >>>>> reuse that are allowed and not by the rights owner).
> >>>>>
> >>>>>> Ways around that issue could involve the shape or color of the feather,
> >>>> among other adjustments.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Exactly what I meant: IMHO those changes are more "broken"
> >>>>> than a rotation. ;-)
> >>>>> [But if they are allowed, then fine.]
> >>>>>
> >>>>>> Thank you and the community for your trust. We look forward to working
> >>>> with you.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Hopefully, preferences will be collected in the thread which I
> >>>>> mentioned in the previous message, and the community can
> >>>>> converge on a few ideas to help with the design.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Best regards,
> >>>>> Gilles
> >>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Best,
> >>>>>> Sally
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> - - -
> >>>>>> Vice President Marketing & Publicity
> >>>>>> Vice President Sponsor Relations
> >>>>>> The Apache Software Foundation
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Tel +1 617 921 8656 | [hidden email]
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>> On Mon, Sep 9, 2019, at 03:22, Gilles Sadowski wrote:
> >>>>>>> Hello.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> Le sam. 7 sept. 2019 à 13:29, Sally Khudairi <[hidden email]> a écrit :
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> Thank you, Gilles. I appreciate you reaching out.
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> Normally I encourage PMCs to not re-orient or "spindle" the feather
> >>>> where possible, but I understand that some legacy logos have a bit of a
> >>>> problem with positioning. For example, the Apache HTTP Server logo:
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> - original logo https://twitter.com/apache_httpd/photo
> >>>>>>>> - interim logo https://britewire.com/apache-http-server/
> >>>>>>>> - new logo
> >>>> https://svn.apache.org/repos/asf/comdev/project-logos/originals/httpd.svg
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> So is the choice between
> >>>>>>> * use the exact same feather as the foundation's
> >>>>>>> * not use anything that even remotely looks like feather
> >>>>>>> ?
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> Whilst I understand the proposed design, I'm not *loving* the look of
> >>>> the logo, particularly as Apache Commons has such a massive footprint
> >>>> across so many projects.
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> To that end, may I ask a favor?
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> Would you and the Apache Commons PMC be amenable to considering
> >>>> having Central Services --a somewhat new sub-group of ASF Marketing &
> >>>> Publicity-- help you with creating a new logo?
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Help from experts is welcome.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> If you are not in a rush, we can see how we can help you.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> I don't think we should be in a rush, as the proposal to change the
> >>>>>>> projects' logo(s) dates back from 3 years ago.[1]
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> ApacheCon North America starts on Monday, and we can start the
> >>>> discussions on what your requirements are and the best way to meet your
> >>>> needs.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> I can only speak about of my preferences:[2]
> >>>>>>> * At most 2 or 3 graphical elements reminiscent of the project
> >>>>>>> (feather included, if applicable)
> >>>>>>> * No URL
> >>>>>>> * Clearly visible at all (reasonable) resolutions [3]
> >>>>>>> * Combinable with 1 additional grahical element (so that we can
> >>>>>>> easily create one logo for each of the many components hosted
> >>>>>>> in "Commons" [4]
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> ApacheCon Europe is taking place in October: I was thinking the
> >>>> timeframe between the two events (~6 weeks) would be sufficient for us to
> >>>> have a few proposals developed.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Great.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> If this works for you, we can get started this week.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Fine with me.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> If not, I understand. You may proceed with the proposed logo with the
> >>>> intention of revisiting and updating in future.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Now is a good time.
> >>>>>>> Indeed, that logo is not favoured by the community (at least the few
> >>>>>>> who voiced their opinion).[5]  And, IMHO, the alternatives are failing
> >>>>>>> what I consider basic requirements (cf. above).[6]
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> Many kind thanks again for your attention and consideration.
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> Warm regards,
> >>>>>>>> Sally
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Thank you very much for the offer,
> >>>>>>> Gilles
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> [1] https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/COMMONSSITE-86
> >>>>>>> [2] Discussion thread:
> >>>>>>>   https://markmail.org/message/twsre7wl6jmue6mp
> >>>>>>> [3] For example, when I look at the top left of the Apache's JIRA
> >>>> pages:
> >>>>>>>   https://issues.apache.org/jira/secure/Dashboard.jspa
> >>>>>>> I see either a bad logo, or an inadequate use of it.
> >>>>>>> [4] See e.g. http://commons.apache.org/proper/commons-rng/
> >>>>>>> [5] Lacking feedback, I opted for an upgrade of the feather using
> >>>>>>> the foundation's new graphics keeping the old (and supposedly
> >>>>>>> consensual) idea for the feather orientation.
> >>>>>>> [6] Even though it's great that Loic Guibert was willing to provide
> >>>>>>> idea and a few examples.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> Tel +1 617 921 8656 | [hidden email]
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> On Fri, Sep 6, 2019, at 17:18, Gilles Sadowski wrote:
> >>>>>>>>> Hello.
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> We, at Apache Commons, would like to know whether an Apache
> >>>>>>>>> project  is authorized to extract graphical elements from the
> >>>>>>>>> foundation's logo, apply some transformation to them, and use
> >>>>>>>>> the result in order to compose its own logo.
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> Case in point is here:
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>> https://svn.apache.org/repos/asf/comdev/project-logos/originals/commons.svg
> >>>>>>>>> (where the feather has been rotated).
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> Does it constitute a breach of the recommendations published in
> >>>>>>>>> the "Identity Style Guide"?[1]
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> Thank you,
> >>>>>>>>> Gilles Sadowski
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> [1]
> >>>> https://apache.org/foundation/press/kit/ApacheFoundation_StyleGuide.pdf
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> >>>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: [hidden email]
> >>>>> For additional commands, e-mail: [hidden email]
> >>>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> >>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: [hidden email]
> >>>> For additional commands, e-mail: [hidden email]
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>
> >
> > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> > To unsubscribe, e-mail: [hidden email]
> > For additional commands, e-mail: [hidden email]

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Re: Advice on project logo

sebb-2-2
Surely it would be better to use the JIRA

https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/COMMONSSITE-86

On Sun, 15 Sep 2019 at 21:13, Gilles Sadowski <[hidden email]> wrote:

>
> Could we please use *one* (and the original) thread to collect ideas?
>
> Gilles
>
> Le dim. 15 sept. 2019 à 19:47, Rob Tompkins <[hidden email]> a écrit :
> >
> >
> >
> > > On Sep 15, 2019, at 8:10 AM, Gary Gregory <[hidden email]> wrote:
> > >
> > > I do not think we need "Project", we're not a 70s progrock band ;-)
> >
> > I like the Alan Parsons Project, a little :-P
> > >
> > >> On Sun, Sep 15, 2019, 07:45 Rob Tompkins <[hidden email]> wrote:
> > >> Here’s a potential logo that I mocked up and sent to Kenneth. Does anyone have any opinions on this? I felt like something similar to the one that Sally sent across for the HTTP project seemed reasonable.
> > >>
> > >> Also, I think that it’s not exactly adherent to the style guide and that Kenneth plans on putting something together that’s analogous and adhere’s to the style guide.
> > >>
> > >> Thoughts? -Rob
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>> On Sep 9, 2019, at 3:17 PM, Gary Gregory <[hidden email]> wrote:
> > >>>
> > >>> The KISS solution would be to get "Central" to produce not just the Commons
> > >>> logo but one for each component and be done. The even simpler path is to
> > >>> forgo component specific logos, especially since Commons is just one Apache
> > >>> project. I like simpler...
> > >>>
> > >>> Gary
> > >>>
> > >>>> On Mon, Sep 9, 2019, 15:08 Rob Tompkins <[hidden email]> wrote:
> > >>>>
> > >>>>
> > >>>>
> > >>>>> On Sep 9, 2019, at 11:31 AM, Gilles Sadowski <[hidden email]>
> > >>>> wrote:
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> Hi.
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>> Le lun. 9 sept. 2019 à 12:35, Sally Khudairi <[hidden email]> a écrit :
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>> Thank you, Gilles.
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>> I'm copying Kenneth Paskett, creative lead from Central Services. I was
> > >>>> talking to him about this opportunity yesterday: we will be happy to
> > >>>> explore options for a future design.
> > >>>>
> > >>>> Just curious, who on this transmission is at ApacheCon this week. Having
> > >>>> worked with Sally in the past on an ad-hoc logo for the DC road show
> > >>>> earlier this year, I could sit down with her and see if we can get
> > >>>> something analogous to what we have in place currently that satisfies
> > >>>> everyone (granted my designs tend to be minimalist in nature).
> > >>>>
> > >>>> Thoughts?
> > >>>>
> > >>>> -Rob
> > >>>>
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>> I'm not saying "don't use anything that remotely looks like the
> > >>>> feather". It's important that if we choose to use an ASF-feather-inspired
> > >>>> motif that it doesn't look like it's a "broken" version of the original.
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> It was certainly not the intention.
> > >>>>> It is difficult/impossible to argue on things that boil down
> > >>>>> to a matter of taste or arbitrary policy (like the kinds of
> > >>>>> reuse that are allowed and not by the rights owner).
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>> Ways around that issue could involve the shape or color of the feather,
> > >>>> among other adjustments.
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> Exactly what I meant: IMHO those changes are more "broken"
> > >>>>> than a rotation. ;-)
> > >>>>> [But if they are allowed, then fine.]
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>> Thank you and the community for your trust. We look forward to working
> > >>>> with you.
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> Hopefully, preferences will be collected in the thread which I
> > >>>>> mentioned in the previous message, and the community can
> > >>>>> converge on a few ideas to help with the design.
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> Best regards,
> > >>>>> Gilles
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>> Best,
> > >>>>>> Sally
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>> - - -
> > >>>>>> Vice President Marketing & Publicity
> > >>>>>> Vice President Sponsor Relations
> > >>>>>> The Apache Software Foundation
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>> Tel +1 617 921 8656 | [hidden email]
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>>> On Mon, Sep 9, 2019, at 03:22, Gilles Sadowski wrote:
> > >>>>>>> Hello.
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>> Le sam. 7 sept. 2019 à 13:29, Sally Khudairi <[hidden email]> a écrit :
> > >>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>> Thank you, Gilles. I appreciate you reaching out.
> > >>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>> Normally I encourage PMCs to not re-orient or "spindle" the feather
> > >>>> where possible, but I understand that some legacy logos have a bit of a
> > >>>> problem with positioning. For example, the Apache HTTP Server logo:
> > >>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>> - original logo https://twitter.com/apache_httpd/photo
> > >>>>>>>> - interim logo https://britewire.com/apache-http-server/
> > >>>>>>>> - new logo
> > >>>> https://svn.apache.org/repos/asf/comdev/project-logos/originals/httpd.svg
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>> So is the choice between
> > >>>>>>> * use the exact same feather as the foundation's
> > >>>>>>> * not use anything that even remotely looks like feather
> > >>>>>>> ?
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>> Whilst I understand the proposed design, I'm not *loving* the look of
> > >>>> the logo, particularly as Apache Commons has such a massive footprint
> > >>>> across so many projects.
> > >>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>> To that end, may I ask a favor?
> > >>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>> Would you and the Apache Commons PMC be amenable to considering
> > >>>> having Central Services --a somewhat new sub-group of ASF Marketing &
> > >>>> Publicity-- help you with creating a new logo?
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>> Help from experts is welcome.
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>> If you are not in a rush, we can see how we can help you.
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>> I don't think we should be in a rush, as the proposal to change the
> > >>>>>>> projects' logo(s) dates back from 3 years ago.[1]
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>> ApacheCon North America starts on Monday, and we can start the
> > >>>> discussions on what your requirements are and the best way to meet your
> > >>>> needs.
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>> I can only speak about of my preferences:[2]
> > >>>>>>> * At most 2 or 3 graphical elements reminiscent of the project
> > >>>>>>> (feather included, if applicable)
> > >>>>>>> * No URL
> > >>>>>>> * Clearly visible at all (reasonable) resolutions [3]
> > >>>>>>> * Combinable with 1 additional grahical element (so that we can
> > >>>>>>> easily create one logo for each of the many components hosted
> > >>>>>>> in "Commons" [4]
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>> ApacheCon Europe is taking place in October: I was thinking the
> > >>>> timeframe between the two events (~6 weeks) would be sufficient for us to
> > >>>> have a few proposals developed.
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>> Great.
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>> If this works for you, we can get started this week.
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>> Fine with me.
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>> If not, I understand. You may proceed with the proposed logo with the
> > >>>> intention of revisiting and updating in future.
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>> Now is a good time.
> > >>>>>>> Indeed, that logo is not favoured by the community (at least the few
> > >>>>>>> who voiced their opinion).[5]  And, IMHO, the alternatives are failing
> > >>>>>>> what I consider basic requirements (cf. above).[6]
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>> Many kind thanks again for your attention and consideration.
> > >>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>> Warm regards,
> > >>>>>>>> Sally
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>> Thank you very much for the offer,
> > >>>>>>> Gilles
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>> [1] https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/COMMONSSITE-86
> > >>>>>>> [2] Discussion thread:
> > >>>>>>>   https://markmail.org/message/twsre7wl6jmue6mp
> > >>>>>>> [3] For example, when I look at the top left of the Apache's JIRA
> > >>>> pages:
> > >>>>>>>   https://issues.apache.org/jira/secure/Dashboard.jspa
> > >>>>>>> I see either a bad logo, or an inadequate use of it.
> > >>>>>>> [4] See e.g. http://commons.apache.org/proper/commons-rng/
> > >>>>>>> [5] Lacking feedback, I opted for an upgrade of the feather using
> > >>>>>>> the foundation's new graphics keeping the old (and supposedly
> > >>>>>>> consensual) idea for the feather orientation.
> > >>>>>>> [6] Even though it's great that Loic Guibert was willing to provide
> > >>>>>>> idea and a few examples.
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>> Tel +1 617 921 8656 | [hidden email]
> > >>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>> On Fri, Sep 6, 2019, at 17:18, Gilles Sadowski wrote:
> > >>>>>>>>> Hello.
> > >>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>> We, at Apache Commons, would like to know whether an Apache
> > >>>>>>>>> project  is authorized to extract graphical elements from the
> > >>>>>>>>> foundation's logo, apply some transformation to them, and use
> > >>>>>>>>> the result in order to compose its own logo.
> > >>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>> Case in point is here:
> > >>>>>>>>>
> > >>>> https://svn.apache.org/repos/asf/comdev/project-logos/originals/commons.svg
> > >>>>>>>>> (where the feather has been rotated).
> > >>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>> Does it constitute a breach of the recommendations published in
> > >>>>>>>>> the "Identity Style Guide"?[1]
> > >>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>> Thank you,
> > >>>>>>>>> Gilles Sadowski
> > >>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>> [1]
> > >>>> https://apache.org/foundation/press/kit/ApacheFoundation_StyleGuide.pdf
> > >>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> > >>>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: [hidden email]
> > >>>>> For additional commands, e-mail: [hidden email]
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>
> > >>>>
> > >>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> > >>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: [hidden email]
> > >>>> For additional commands, e-mail: [hidden email]
> > >>>>
> > >>>>
> > >>
> > >
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Re: Advice on project logo

Gilles Sadowski-2
Le dim. 15 sept. 2019 à 23:40, sebb <[hidden email]> a écrit :
>
> Surely it would be better to use the JIRA
>
> https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/COMMONSSITE-86

I don't get it: We agreed to let "Central Services" provide the logo
and now we are again presenting homegrown ones...
Do we really want to "bikeshed" (again) about unfinished and/or
unpolished products?

The initial/original thread mentioned previously was supposed to
be the place were we define requirements/wishes (in words, or
ASCII graphics to convey the general idea).
I provided suggestions (in that other thread); please comment.

Gilles

>
> On Sun, 15 Sep 2019 at 21:13, Gilles Sadowski <[hidden email]> wrote:
> >
> > Could we please use *one* (and the original) thread to collect ideas?
> >
> > Gilles
> >
> > Le dim. 15 sept. 2019 à 19:47, Rob Tompkins <[hidden email]> a écrit :
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > > On Sep 15, 2019, at 8:10 AM, Gary Gregory <[hidden email]> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > I do not think we need "Project", we're not a 70s progrock band ;-)
> > >
> > > I like the Alan Parsons Project, a little :-P
> > > >
> > > >> On Sun, Sep 15, 2019, 07:45 Rob Tompkins <[hidden email]> wrote:
> > > >> Here’s a potential logo that I mocked up and sent to Kenneth. Does anyone have any opinions on this? I felt like something similar to the one that Sally sent across for the HTTP project seemed reasonable.
> > > >>
> > > >> Also, I think that it’s not exactly adherent to the style guide and that Kenneth plans on putting something together that’s analogous and adhere’s to the style guide.
> > > >>
> > > >> Thoughts? -Rob
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >>> On Sep 9, 2019, at 3:17 PM, Gary Gregory <[hidden email]> wrote:
> > > >>>
> > > >>> The KISS solution would be to get "Central" to produce not just the Commons
> > > >>> logo but one for each component and be done. The even simpler path is to
> > > >>> forgo component specific logos, especially since Commons is just one Apache
> > > >>> project. I like simpler...
> > > >>>
> > > >>> Gary
> > > >>>
> > > >>>> On Mon, Sep 9, 2019, 15:08 Rob Tompkins <[hidden email]> wrote:
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>>> On Sep 9, 2019, at 11:31 AM, Gilles Sadowski <[hidden email]>
> > > >>>> wrote:
> > > >>>>>
> > > >>>>> Hi.
> > > >>>>>
> > > >>>>>> Le lun. 9 sept. 2019 à 12:35, Sally Khudairi <[hidden email]> a écrit :
> > > >>>>>>
> > > >>>>>> Thank you, Gilles.
> > > >>>>>>
> > > >>>>>> I'm copying Kenneth Paskett, creative lead from Central Services. I was
> > > >>>> talking to him about this opportunity yesterday: we will be happy to
> > > >>>> explore options for a future design.
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>> Just curious, who on this transmission is at ApacheCon this week. Having
> > > >>>> worked with Sally in the past on an ad-hoc logo for the DC road show
> > > >>>> earlier this year, I could sit down with her and see if we can get
> > > >>>> something analogous to what we have in place currently that satisfies
> > > >>>> everyone (granted my designs tend to be minimalist in nature).
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>> Thoughts?
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>> -Rob
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>>>>
> > > >>>>>> I'm not saying "don't use anything that remotely looks like the
> > > >>>> feather". It's important that if we choose to use an ASF-feather-inspired
> > > >>>> motif that it doesn't look like it's a "broken" version of the original.
> > > >>>>>
> > > >>>>> It was certainly not the intention.
> > > >>>>> It is difficult/impossible to argue on things that boil down
> > > >>>>> to a matter of taste or arbitrary policy (like the kinds of
> > > >>>>> reuse that are allowed and not by the rights owner).
> > > >>>>>
> > > >>>>>> Ways around that issue could involve the shape or color of the feather,
> > > >>>> among other adjustments.
> > > >>>>>
> > > >>>>> Exactly what I meant: IMHO those changes are more "broken"
> > > >>>>> than a rotation. ;-)
> > > >>>>> [But if they are allowed, then fine.]
> > > >>>>>
> > > >>>>>> Thank you and the community for your trust. We look forward to working
> > > >>>> with you.
> > > >>>>>
> > > >>>>> Hopefully, preferences will be collected in the thread which I
> > > >>>>> mentioned in the previous message, and the community can
> > > >>>>> converge on a few ideas to help with the design.
> > > >>>>>
> > > >>>>> Best regards,
> > > >>>>> Gilles
> > > >>>>>
> > > >>>>>>
> > > >>>>>> Best,
> > > >>>>>> Sally
> > > >>>>>>
> > > >>>>>> - - -
> > > >>>>>> Vice President Marketing & Publicity
> > > >>>>>> Vice President Sponsor Relations
> > > >>>>>> The Apache Software Foundation
> > > >>>>>>
> > > >>>>>> Tel +1 617 921 8656 | [hidden email]
> > > >>>>>>
> > > >>>>>>> On Mon, Sep 9, 2019, at 03:22, Gilles Sadowski wrote:
> > > >>>>>>> Hello.
> > > >>>>>>>
> > > >>>>>>>> Le sam. 7 sept. 2019 à 13:29, Sally Khudairi <[hidden email]> a écrit :
> > > >>>>>>>>
> > > >>>>>>>> Thank you, Gilles. I appreciate you reaching out.
> > > >>>>>>>>
> > > >>>>>>>> Normally I encourage PMCs to not re-orient or "spindle" the feather
> > > >>>> where possible, but I understand that some legacy logos have a bit of a
> > > >>>> problem with positioning. For example, the Apache HTTP Server logo:
> > > >>>>>>>>
> > > >>>>>>>> - original logo https://twitter.com/apache_httpd/photo
> > > >>>>>>>> - interim logo https://britewire.com/apache-http-server/
> > > >>>>>>>> - new logo
> > > >>>> https://svn.apache.org/repos/asf/comdev/project-logos/originals/httpd.svg
> > > >>>>>>>
> > > >>>>>>> So is the choice between
> > > >>>>>>> * use the exact same feather as the foundation's
> > > >>>>>>> * not use anything that even remotely looks like feather
> > > >>>>>>> ?
> > > >>>>>>>
> > > >>>>>>>> Whilst I understand the proposed design, I'm not *loving* the look of
> > > >>>> the logo, particularly as Apache Commons has such a massive footprint
> > > >>>> across so many projects.
> > > >>>>>>>>
> > > >>>>>>>> To that end, may I ask a favor?
> > > >>>>>>>>
> > > >>>>>>>> Would you and the Apache Commons PMC be amenable to considering
> > > >>>> having Central Services --a somewhat new sub-group of ASF Marketing &
> > > >>>> Publicity-- help you with creating a new logo?
> > > >>>>>>>
> > > >>>>>>> Help from experts is welcome.
> > > >>>>>>>
> > > >>>>>>>> If you are not in a rush, we can see how we can help you.
> > > >>>>>>>
> > > >>>>>>> I don't think we should be in a rush, as the proposal to change the
> > > >>>>>>> projects' logo(s) dates back from 3 years ago.[1]
> > > >>>>>>>
> > > >>>>>>>> ApacheCon North America starts on Monday, and we can start the
> > > >>>> discussions on what your requirements are and the best way to meet your
> > > >>>> needs.
> > > >>>>>>>
> > > >>>>>>> I can only speak about of my preferences:[2]
> > > >>>>>>> * At most 2 or 3 graphical elements reminiscent of the project
> > > >>>>>>> (feather included, if applicable)
> > > >>>>>>> * No URL
> > > >>>>>>> * Clearly visible at all (reasonable) resolutions [3]
> > > >>>>>>> * Combinable with 1 additional grahical element (so that we can
> > > >>>>>>> easily create one logo for each of the many components hosted
> > > >>>>>>> in "Commons" [4]
> > > >>>>>>>
> > > >>>>>>>> ApacheCon Europe is taking place in October: I was thinking the
> > > >>>> timeframe between the two events (~6 weeks) would be sufficient for us to
> > > >>>> have a few proposals developed.
> > > >>>>>>>
> > > >>>>>>> Great.
> > > >>>>>>>
> > > >>>>>>>> If this works for you, we can get started this week.
> > > >>>>>>>
> > > >>>>>>> Fine with me.
> > > >>>>>>>
> > > >>>>>>>> If not, I understand. You may proceed with the proposed logo with the
> > > >>>> intention of revisiting and updating in future.
> > > >>>>>>>
> > > >>>>>>> Now is a good time.
> > > >>>>>>> Indeed, that logo is not favoured by the community (at least the few
> > > >>>>>>> who voiced their opinion).[5]  And, IMHO, the alternatives are failing
> > > >>>>>>> what I consider basic requirements (cf. above).[6]
> > > >>>>>>>
> > > >>>>>>>> Many kind thanks again for your attention and consideration.
> > > >>>>>>>>
> > > >>>>>>>> Warm regards,
> > > >>>>>>>> Sally
> > > >>>>>>>
> > > >>>>>>> Thank you very much for the offer,
> > > >>>>>>> Gilles
> > > >>>>>>>
> > > >>>>>>> [1] https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/COMMONSSITE-86
> > > >>>>>>> [2] Discussion thread:
> > > >>>>>>>   https://markmail.org/message/twsre7wl6jmue6mp
> > > >>>>>>> [3] For example, when I look at the top left of the Apache's JIRA
> > > >>>> pages:
> > > >>>>>>>   https://issues.apache.org/jira/secure/Dashboard.jspa
> > > >>>>>>> I see either a bad logo, or an inadequate use of it.
> > > >>>>>>> [4] See e.g. http://commons.apache.org/proper/commons-rng/
> > > >>>>>>> [5] Lacking feedback, I opted for an upgrade of the feather using
> > > >>>>>>> the foundation's new graphics keeping the old (and supposedly
> > > >>>>>>> consensual) idea for the feather orientation.
> > > >>>>>>> [6] Even though it's great that Loic Guibert was willing to provide
> > > >>>>>>> idea and a few examples.
> > > >>>>>>>
> > > >>>>>>>>
> > > >>>>>>>> Tel +1 617 921 8656 | [hidden email]
> > > >>>>>>>>
> > > >>>>>>>>> On Fri, Sep 6, 2019, at 17:18, Gilles Sadowski wrote:
> > > >>>>>>>>> Hello.
> > > >>>>>>>>>
> > > >>>>>>>>> We, at Apache Commons, would like to know whether an Apache
> > > >>>>>>>>> project  is authorized to extract graphical elements from the
> > > >>>>>>>>> foundation's logo, apply some transformation to them, and use
> > > >>>>>>>>> the result in order to compose its own logo.
> > > >>>>>>>>>
> > > >>>>>>>>> Case in point is here:
> > > >>>>>>>>>
> > > >>>> https://svn.apache.org/repos/asf/comdev/project-logos/originals/commons.svg
> > > >>>>>>>>> (where the feather has been rotated).
> > > >>>>>>>>>
> > > >>>>>>>>> Does it constitute a breach of the recommendations published in
> > > >>>>>>>>> the "Identity Style Guide"?[1]
> > > >>>>>>>>>
> > > >>>>>>>>> Thank you,
> > > >>>>>>>>> Gilles Sadowski
> > > >>>>>>>>>
> > > >>>>>>>>> [1]
> > > >>>> https://apache.org/foundation/press/kit/ApacheFoundation_StyleGuide.pdf
> > > >>>>>>>>>
> > > >>>>>
> > > >>>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> > > >>>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: [hidden email]
> > > >>>>> For additional commands, e-mail: [hidden email]
> > > >>>>>
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> > > >>>>
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> > > >>>>
> > > >>
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Re: Advice on project logo

Rob Tompkins
Pardon to cause a stir here, but that was just a mock-up that I sent to “Central Services” as an idea from which to work. I had no intentions of suggesting that we vote on it or even use is as I think that there are spacing and font issues with it. I thought that my email with the mock-up made it clear that it was a rough pass.

-Rob

> On Sep 15, 2019, at 7:25 PM, Gilles Sadowski <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> Le dim. 15 sept. 2019 à 23:40, sebb <[hidden email] <mailto:[hidden email]>> a écrit :
>>
>> Surely it would be better to use the JIRA
>>
>> https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/COMMONSSITE-86 <https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/COMMONSSITE-86>
>
> I don't get it: We agreed to let "Central Services" provide the logo
> and now we are again presenting homegrown ones...
> Do we really want to "bikeshed" (again) about unfinished and/or
> unpolished products?
>
> The initial/original thread mentioned previously was supposed to
> be the place were we define requirements/wishes (in words, or
> ASCII graphics to convey the general idea).
> I provided suggestions (in that other thread); please comment.
>
> Gilles
>
>>
>> On Sun, 15 Sep 2019 at 21:13, Gilles Sadowski <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>>
>>> Could we please use *one* (and the original) thread to collect ideas?
>>>
>>> Gilles
>>>
>>> Le dim. 15 sept. 2019 à 19:47, Rob Tompkins <[hidden email]> a écrit :
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> On Sep 15, 2019, at 8:10 AM, Gary Gregory <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> I do not think we need "Project", we're not a 70s progrock band ;-)
>>>>
>>>> I like the Alan Parsons Project, a little :-P
>>>>>
>>>>>> On Sun, Sep 15, 2019, 07:45 Rob Tompkins <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>>>>> Here’s a potential logo that I mocked up and sent to Kenneth. Does anyone have any opinions on this? I felt like something similar to the one that Sally sent across for the HTTP project seemed reasonable.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Also, I think that it’s not exactly adherent to the style guide and that Kenneth plans on putting something together that’s analogous and adhere’s to the style guide.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Thoughts? -Rob
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Sep 9, 2019, at 3:17 PM, Gary Gregory <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> The KISS solution would be to get "Central" to produce not just the Commons
>>>>>>> logo but one for each component and be done. The even simpler path is to
>>>>>>> forgo component specific logos, especially since Commons is just one Apache
>>>>>>> project. I like simpler...
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Gary
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On Mon, Sep 9, 2019, 15:08 Rob Tompkins <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On Sep 9, 2019, at 11:31 AM, Gilles Sadowski <[hidden email]>
>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Hi.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Le lun. 9 sept. 2019 à 12:35, Sally Khudairi <[hidden email]> a écrit :
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Thank you, Gilles.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> I'm copying Kenneth Paskett, creative lead from Central Services. I was
>>>>>>>> talking to him about this opportunity yesterday: we will be happy to
>>>>>>>> explore options for a future design.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Just curious, who on this transmission is at ApacheCon this week. Having
>>>>>>>> worked with Sally in the past on an ad-hoc logo for the DC road show
>>>>>>>> earlier this year, I could sit down with her and see if we can get
>>>>>>>> something analogous to what we have in place currently that satisfies
>>>>>>>> everyone (granted my designs tend to be minimalist in nature).
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Thoughts?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> -Rob
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> I'm not saying "don't use anything that remotely looks like the
>>>>>>>> feather". It's important that if we choose to use an ASF-feather-inspired
>>>>>>>> motif that it doesn't look like it's a "broken" version of the original.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> It was certainly not the intention.
>>>>>>>>> It is difficult/impossible to argue on things that boil down
>>>>>>>>> to a matter of taste or arbitrary policy (like the kinds of
>>>>>>>>> reuse that are allowed and not by the rights owner).
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Ways around that issue could involve the shape or color of the feather,
>>>>>>>> among other adjustments.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Exactly what I meant: IMHO those changes are more "broken"
>>>>>>>>> than a rotation. ;-)
>>>>>>>>> [But if they are allowed, then fine.]
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Thank you and the community for your trust. We look forward to working
>>>>>>>> with you.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Hopefully, preferences will be collected in the thread which I
>>>>>>>>> mentioned in the previous message, and the community can
>>>>>>>>> converge on a few ideas to help with the design.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Best regards,
>>>>>>>>> Gilles
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Best,
>>>>>>>>>> Sally
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> - - -
>>>>>>>>>> Vice President Marketing & Publicity
>>>>>>>>>> Vice President Sponsor Relations
>>>>>>>>>> The Apache Software Foundation
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Tel +1 617 921 8656 | [hidden email]
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> On Mon, Sep 9, 2019, at 03:22, Gilles Sadowski wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> Hello.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Le sam. 7 sept. 2019 à 13:29, Sally Khudairi <[hidden email]> a écrit :
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Thank you, Gilles. I appreciate you reaching out.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Normally I encourage PMCs to not re-orient or "spindle" the feather
>>>>>>>> where possible, but I understand that some legacy logos have a bit of a
>>>>>>>> problem with positioning. For example, the Apache HTTP Server logo:
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> - original logo https://twitter.com/apache_httpd/photo
>>>>>>>>>>>> - interim logo https://britewire.com/apache-http-server/
>>>>>>>>>>>> - new logo
>>>>>>>> https://svn.apache.org/repos/asf/comdev/project-logos/originals/httpd.svg
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> So is the choice between
>>>>>>>>>>> * use the exact same feather as the foundation's
>>>>>>>>>>> * not use anything that even remotely looks like feather
>>>>>>>>>>> ?
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Whilst I understand the proposed design, I'm not *loving* the look of
>>>>>>>> the logo, particularly as Apache Commons has such a massive footprint
>>>>>>>> across so many projects.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> To that end, may I ask a favor?
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Would you and the Apache Commons PMC be amenable to considering
>>>>>>>> having Central Services --a somewhat new sub-group of ASF Marketing &
>>>>>>>> Publicity-- help you with creating a new logo?
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Help from experts is welcome.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> If you are not in a rush, we can see how we can help you.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> I don't think we should be in a rush, as the proposal to change the
>>>>>>>>>>> projects' logo(s) dates back from 3 years ago.[1]
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> ApacheCon North America starts on Monday, and we can start the
>>>>>>>> discussions on what your requirements are and the best way to meet your
>>>>>>>> needs.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> I can only speak about of my preferences:[2]
>>>>>>>>>>> * At most 2 or 3 graphical elements reminiscent of the project
>>>>>>>>>>> (feather included, if applicable)
>>>>>>>>>>> * No URL
>>>>>>>>>>> * Clearly visible at all (reasonable) resolutions [3]
>>>>>>>>>>> * Combinable with 1 additional grahical element (so that we can
>>>>>>>>>>> easily create one logo for each of the many components hosted
>>>>>>>>>>> in "Commons" [4]
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> ApacheCon Europe is taking place in October: I was thinking the
>>>>>>>> timeframe between the two events (~6 weeks) would be sufficient for us to
>>>>>>>> have a few proposals developed.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Great.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> If this works for you, we can get started this week.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Fine with me.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> If not, I understand. You may proceed with the proposed logo with the
>>>>>>>> intention of revisiting and updating in future.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Now is a good time.
>>>>>>>>>>> Indeed, that logo is not favoured by the community (at least the few
>>>>>>>>>>> who voiced their opinion).[5]  And, IMHO, the alternatives are failing
>>>>>>>>>>> what I consider basic requirements (cf. above).[6]
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Many kind thanks again for your attention and consideration.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Warm regards,
>>>>>>>>>>>> Sally
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Thank you very much for the offer,
>>>>>>>>>>> Gilles
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> [1] https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/COMMONSSITE-86
>>>>>>>>>>> [2] Discussion thread:
>>>>>>>>>>>  https://markmail.org/message/twsre7wl6jmue6mp
>>>>>>>>>>> [3] For example, when I look at the top left of the Apache's JIRA
>>>>>>>> pages:
>>>>>>>>>>>  https://issues.apache.org/jira/secure/Dashboard.jspa
>>>>>>>>>>> I see either a bad logo, or an inadequate use of it.
>>>>>>>>>>> [4] See e.g. http://commons.apache.org/proper/commons-rng/
>>>>>>>>>>> [5] Lacking feedback, I opted for an upgrade of the feather using
>>>>>>>>>>> the foundation's new graphics keeping the old (and supposedly
>>>>>>>>>>> consensual) idea for the feather orientation.
>>>>>>>>>>> [6] Even though it's great that Loic Guibert was willing to provide
>>>>>>>>>>> idea and a few examples.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Tel +1 617 921 8656 | [hidden email]
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Fri, Sep 6, 2019, at 17:18, Gilles Sadowski wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Hello.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> We, at Apache Commons, would like to know whether an Apache
>>>>>>>>>>>>> project  is authorized to extract graphical elements from the
>>>>>>>>>>>>> foundation's logo, apply some transformation to them, and use
>>>>>>>>>>>>> the result in order to compose its own logo.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Case in point is here:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> https://svn.apache.org/repos/asf/comdev/project-logos/originals/commons.svg
>>>>>>>>>>>>> (where the feather has been rotated).
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Does it constitute a breach of the recommendations published in
>>>>>>>>>>>>> the "Identity Style Guide"?[1]
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Thank you,
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Gilles Sadowski
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> [1]
>>>>>>>> https://apache.org/foundation/press/kit/ApacheFoundation_StyleGuide.pdf
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: [hidden email]
>>>>>>>>> For additional commands, e-mail: [hidden email]
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: [hidden email]
>>>>>>>> For additional commands, e-mail: [hidden email]
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
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Re: Advice on project logo

garydgregory
I for one appreciate Rob's efforts and would also be happy to turn the task
over to Services with our input which IMO is just our project name "Apache
Commons".

Gary

On Sun, Sep 15, 2019 at 8:39 PM Rob Tompkins <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Pardon to cause a stir here, but that was just a mock-up that I sent to
> “Central Services” as an idea from which to work. I had no intentions of
> suggesting that we vote on it or even use is as I think that there are
> spacing and font issues with it. I thought that my email with the mock-up
> made it clear that it was a rough pass.
>
> -Rob
>
> > On Sep 15, 2019, at 7:25 PM, Gilles Sadowski <[hidden email]>
> wrote:
> >
> > Le dim. 15 sept. 2019 à 23:40, sebb <[hidden email] <mailto:
> [hidden email]>> a écrit :
> >>
> >> Surely it would be better to use the JIRA
> >>
> >> https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/COMMONSSITE-86 <
> https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/COMMONSSITE-86>
> >
> > I don't get it: We agreed to let "Central Services" provide the logo
> > and now we are again presenting homegrown ones...
> > Do we really want to "bikeshed" (again) about unfinished and/or
> > unpolished products?
> >
> > The initial/original thread mentioned previously was supposed to
> > be the place were we define requirements/wishes (in words, or
> > ASCII graphics to convey the general idea).
> > I provided suggestions (in that other thread); please comment.
> >
> > Gilles
> >
> >>
> >> On Sun, 15 Sep 2019 at 21:13, Gilles Sadowski <[hidden email]>
> wrote:
> >>>
> >>> Could we please use *one* (and the original) thread to collect ideas?
> >>>
> >>> Gilles
> >>>
> >>> Le dim. 15 sept. 2019 à 19:47, Rob Tompkins <[hidden email]> a
> écrit :
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>> On Sep 15, 2019, at 8:10 AM, Gary Gregory <[hidden email]>
> wrote:
> >>>>>
> >>>>> I do not think we need "Project", we're not a 70s progrock band ;-)
> >>>>
> >>>> I like the Alan Parsons Project, a little :-P
> >>>>>
> >>>>>> On Sun, Sep 15, 2019, 07:45 Rob Tompkins <[hidden email]>
> wrote:
> >>>>>> Here’s a potential logo that I mocked up and sent to Kenneth. Does
> anyone have any opinions on this? I felt like something similar to the one
> that Sally sent across for the HTTP project seemed reasonable.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Also, I think that it’s not exactly adherent to the style guide and
> that Kenneth plans on putting something together that’s analogous and
> adhere’s to the style guide.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Thoughts? -Rob
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>> On Sep 9, 2019, at 3:17 PM, Gary Gregory <[hidden email]>
> wrote:
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> The KISS solution would be to get "Central" to produce not just
> the Commons
> >>>>>>> logo but one for each component and be done. The even simpler path
> is to
> >>>>>>> forgo component specific logos, especially since Commons is just
> one Apache
> >>>>>>> project. I like simpler...
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Gary
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> On Mon, Sep 9, 2019, 15:08 Rob Tompkins <[hidden email]>
> wrote:
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> On Sep 9, 2019, at 11:31 AM, Gilles Sadowski <
> [hidden email]>
> >>>>>>>> wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> Hi.
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> Le lun. 9 sept. 2019 à 12:35, Sally Khudairi <[hidden email]> a
> écrit :
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> Thank you, Gilles.
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> I'm copying Kenneth Paskett, creative lead from Central
> Services. I was
> >>>>>>>> talking to him about this opportunity yesterday: we will be happy
> to
> >>>>>>>> explore options for a future design.
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> Just curious, who on this transmission is at ApacheCon this week.
> Having
> >>>>>>>> worked with Sally in the past on an ad-hoc logo for the DC road
> show
> >>>>>>>> earlier this year, I could sit down with her and see if we can get
> >>>>>>>> something analogous to what we have in place currently that
> satisfies
> >>>>>>>> everyone (granted my designs tend to be minimalist in nature).
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> Thoughts?
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> -Rob
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> I'm not saying "don't use anything that remotely looks like the
> >>>>>>>> feather". It's important that if we choose to use an
> ASF-feather-inspired
> >>>>>>>> motif that it doesn't look like it's a "broken" version of the
> original.
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> It was certainly not the intention.
> >>>>>>>>> It is difficult/impossible to argue on things that boil down
> >>>>>>>>> to a matter of taste or arbitrary policy (like the kinds of
> >>>>>>>>> reuse that are allowed and not by the rights owner).
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> Ways around that issue could involve the shape or color of the
> feather,
> >>>>>>>> among other adjustments.
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> Exactly what I meant: IMHO those changes are more "broken"
> >>>>>>>>> than a rotation. ;-)
> >>>>>>>>> [But if they are allowed, then fine.]
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> Thank you and the community for your trust. We look forward to
> working
> >>>>>>>> with you.
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> Hopefully, preferences will be collected in the thread which I
> >>>>>>>>> mentioned in the previous message, and the community can
> >>>>>>>>> converge on a few ideas to help with the design.
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> Best regards,
> >>>>>>>>> Gilles
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> Best,
> >>>>>>>>>> Sally
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> - - -
> >>>>>>>>>> Vice President Marketing & Publicity
> >>>>>>>>>> Vice President Sponsor Relations
> >>>>>>>>>> The Apache Software Foundation
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> Tel +1 617 921 8656 | [hidden email]
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>> On Mon, Sep 9, 2019, at 03:22, Gilles Sadowski wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>>> Hello.
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>> Le sam. 7 sept. 2019 à 13:29, Sally Khudairi <[hidden email]>
> a écrit :
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>> Thank you, Gilles. I appreciate you reaching out.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>> Normally I encourage PMCs to not re-orient or "spindle" the
> feather
> >>>>>>>> where possible, but I understand that some legacy logos have a
> bit of a
> >>>>>>>> problem with positioning. For example, the Apache HTTP Server
> logo:
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>> - original logo https://twitter.com/apache_httpd/photo
> >>>>>>>>>>>> - interim logo https://britewire.com/apache-http-server/
> >>>>>>>>>>>> - new logo
> >>>>>>>>
> https://svn.apache.org/repos/asf/comdev/project-logos/originals/httpd.svg
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>> So is the choice between
> >>>>>>>>>>> * use the exact same feather as the foundation's
> >>>>>>>>>>> * not use anything that even remotely looks like feather
> >>>>>>>>>>> ?
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>> Whilst I understand the proposed design, I'm not *loving* the
> look of
> >>>>>>>> the logo, particularly as Apache Commons has such a massive
> footprint
> >>>>>>>> across so many projects.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>> To that end, may I ask a favor?
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>> Would you and the Apache Commons PMC be amenable to
> considering
> >>>>>>>> having Central Services --a somewhat new sub-group of ASF
> Marketing &
> >>>>>>>> Publicity-- help you with creating a new logo?
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>> Help from experts is welcome.
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>> If you are not in a rush, we can see how we can help you.
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>> I don't think we should be in a rush, as the proposal to
> change the
> >>>>>>>>>>> projects' logo(s) dates back from 3 years ago.[1]
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>> ApacheCon North America starts on Monday, and we can start the
> >>>>>>>> discussions on what your requirements are and the best way to
> meet your
> >>>>>>>> needs.
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>> I can only speak about of my preferences:[2]
> >>>>>>>>>>> * At most 2 or 3 graphical elements reminiscent of the project
> >>>>>>>>>>> (feather included, if applicable)
> >>>>>>>>>>> * No URL
> >>>>>>>>>>> * Clearly visible at all (reasonable) resolutions [3]
> >>>>>>>>>>> * Combinable with 1 additional grahical element (so that we can
> >>>>>>>>>>> easily create one logo for each of the many components hosted
> >>>>>>>>>>> in "Commons" [4]
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>> ApacheCon Europe is taking place in October: I was thinking
> the
> >>>>>>>> timeframe between the two events (~6 weeks) would be sufficient
> for us to
> >>>>>>>> have a few proposals developed.
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>> Great.
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>> If this works for you, we can get started this week.
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>> Fine with me.
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>> If not, I understand. You may proceed with the proposed logo
> with the
> >>>>>>>> intention of revisiting and updating in future.
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>> Now is a good time.
> >>>>>>>>>>> Indeed, that logo is not favoured by the community (at least
> the few
> >>>>>>>>>>> who voiced their opinion).[5]  And, IMHO, the alternatives are
> failing
> >>>>>>>>>>> what I consider basic requirements (cf. above).[6]
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>> Many kind thanks again for your attention and consideration.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>> Warm regards,
> >>>>>>>>>>>> Sally
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>> Thank you very much for the offer,
> >>>>>>>>>>> Gilles
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>> [1] https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/COMMONSSITE-86
> >>>>>>>>>>> [2] Discussion thread:
> >>>>>>>>>>>  https://markmail.org/message/twsre7wl6jmue6mp
> >>>>>>>>>>> [3] For example, when I look at the top left of the Apache's
> JIRA
> >>>>>>>> pages:
> >>>>>>>>>>>  https://issues.apache.org/jira/secure/Dashboard.jspa
> >>>>>>>>>>> I see either a bad logo, or an inadequate use of it.
> >>>>>>>>>>> [4] See e.g. http://commons.apache.org/proper/commons-rng/
> >>>>>>>>>>> [5] Lacking feedback, I opted for an upgrade of the feather
> using
> >>>>>>>>>>> the foundation's new graphics keeping the old (and supposedly
> >>>>>>>>>>> consensual) idea for the feather orientation.
> >>>>>>>>>>> [6] Even though it's great that Loic Guibert was willing to
> provide
> >>>>>>>>>>> idea and a few examples.
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>> Tel +1 617 921 8656 | [hidden email]
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> On Fri, Sep 6, 2019, at 17:18, Gilles Sadowski wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Hello.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> We, at Apache Commons, would like to know whether an Apache
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> project  is authorized to extract graphical elements from the
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> foundation's logo, apply some transformation to them, and use
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> the result in order to compose its own logo.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Case in point is here:
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> https://svn.apache.org/repos/asf/comdev/project-logos/originals/commons.svg
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> (where the feather has been rotated).
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Does it constitute a breach of the recommendations published
> in
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> the "Identity Style Guide"?[1]
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Thank you,
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Gilles Sadowski
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> [1]
> >>>>>>>>
> https://apache.org/foundation/press/kit/ApacheFoundation_StyleGuide.pdf
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> >>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: [hidden email]
> >>>>>>>>> For additional commands, e-mail: [hidden email]
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> >>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: [hidden email]
> >>>>>>>> For additional commands, e-mail: [hidden email]
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> >>>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: [hidden email]
> >>>>> For additional commands, e-mail: [hidden email]
> >>>
> >>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> >>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: [hidden email]
> >>> For additional commands, e-mail: [hidden email]
> >>>
> >>
> >> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> >> To unsubscribe, e-mail: [hidden email]
> >> For additional commands, e-mail: [hidden email]
> >>
> >
> > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
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> [hidden email]>
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Re: Advice on project logo

Rob Tompkins


> On Sep 15, 2019, at 9:02 PM, Gary Gregory <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> I for one appreciate Rob's efforts and would also be happy to turn the task
> over to Services with our input which IMO is just our project name "Apache
> Commons".
>

Sounds good to me.


> Gary
>
>> On Sun, Sep 15, 2019 at 8:39 PM Rob Tompkins <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>
>> Pardon to cause a stir here, but that was just a mock-up that I sent to
>> “Central Services” as an idea from which to work. I had no intentions of
>> suggesting that we vote on it or even use is as I think that there are
>> spacing and font issues with it. I thought that my email with the mock-up
>> made it clear that it was a rough pass.
>>
>> -Rob
>>
>>> On Sep 15, 2019, at 7:25 PM, Gilles Sadowski <[hidden email]>
>> wrote:
>>>
>>> Le dim. 15 sept. 2019 à 23:40, sebb <[hidden email] <mailto:
>> [hidden email]>> a écrit :
>>>>
>>>> Surely it would be better to use the JIRA
>>>>
>>>> https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/COMMONSSITE-86 <
>> https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/COMMONSSITE-86>
>>>
>>> I don't get it: We agreed to let "Central Services" provide the logo
>>> and now we are again presenting homegrown ones...
>>> Do we really want to "bikeshed" (again) about unfinished and/or
>>> unpolished products?
>>>
>>> The initial/original thread mentioned previously was supposed to
>>> be the place were we define requirements/wishes (in words, or
>>> ASCII graphics to convey the general idea).
>>> I provided suggestions (in that other thread); please comment.
>>>
>>> Gilles
>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Sun, 15 Sep 2019 at 21:13, Gilles Sadowski <[hidden email]>
>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> Could we please use *one* (and the original) thread to collect ideas?
>>>>>
>>>>> Gilles
>>>>>
>>>>> Le dim. 15 sept. 2019 à 19:47, Rob Tompkins <[hidden email]> a
>> écrit :
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Sep 15, 2019, at 8:10 AM, Gary Gregory <[hidden email]>
>> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I do not think we need "Project", we're not a 70s progrock band ;-)
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I like the Alan Parsons Project, a little :-P
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On Sun, Sep 15, 2019, 07:45 Rob Tompkins <[hidden email]>
>> wrote:
>>>>>>>> Here’s a potential logo that I mocked up and sent to Kenneth. Does
>> anyone have any opinions on this? I felt like something similar to the one
>> that Sally sent across for the HTTP project seemed reasonable.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Also, I think that it’s not exactly adherent to the style guide and
>> that Kenneth plans on putting something together that’s analogous and
>> adhere’s to the style guide.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Thoughts? -Rob
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On Sep 9, 2019, at 3:17 PM, Gary Gregory <[hidden email]>
>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> The KISS solution would be to get "Central" to produce not just
>> the Commons
>>>>>>>>> logo but one for each component and be done. The even simpler path
>> is to
>>>>>>>>> forgo component specific logos, especially since Commons is just
>> one Apache
>>>>>>>>> project. I like simpler...
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Gary
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> On Mon, Sep 9, 2019, 15:08 Rob Tompkins <[hidden email]>
>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> On Sep 9, 2019, at 11:31 AM, Gilles Sadowski <
>> [hidden email]>
>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Hi.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Le lun. 9 sept. 2019 à 12:35, Sally Khudairi <[hidden email]> a
>> écrit :
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Thank you, Gilles.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> I'm copying Kenneth Paskett, creative lead from Central
>> Services. I was
>>>>>>>>>> talking to him about this opportunity yesterday: we will be happy
>> to
>>>>>>>>>> explore options for a future design.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Just curious, who on this transmission is at ApacheCon this week.
>> Having
>>>>>>>>>> worked with Sally in the past on an ad-hoc logo for the DC road
>> show
>>>>>>>>>> earlier this year, I could sit down with her and see if we can get
>>>>>>>>>> something analogous to what we have in place currently that
>> satisfies
>>>>>>>>>> everyone (granted my designs tend to be minimalist in nature).
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Thoughts?
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> -Rob
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> I'm not saying "don't use anything that remotely looks like the
>>>>>>>>>> feather". It's important that if we choose to use an
>> ASF-feather-inspired
>>>>>>>>>> motif that it doesn't look like it's a "broken" version of the
>> original.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> It was certainly not the intention.
>>>>>>>>>>> It is difficult/impossible to argue on things that boil down
>>>>>>>>>>> to a matter of taste or arbitrary policy (like the kinds of
>>>>>>>>>>> reuse that are allowed and not by the rights owner).
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Ways around that issue could involve the shape or color of the
>> feather,
>>>>>>>>>> among other adjustments.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Exactly what I meant: IMHO those changes are more "broken"
>>>>>>>>>>> than a rotation. ;-)
>>>>>>>>>>> [But if they are allowed, then fine.]
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Thank you and the community for your trust. We look forward to
>> working
>>>>>>>>>> with you.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Hopefully, preferences will be collected in the thread which I
>>>>>>>>>>> mentioned in the previous message, and the community can
>>>>>>>>>>> converge on a few ideas to help with the design.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Best regards,
>>>>>>>>>>> Gilles
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Best,
>>>>>>>>>>>> Sally
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> - - -
>>>>>>>>>>>> Vice President Marketing & Publicity
>>>>>>>>>>>> Vice President Sponsor Relations
>>>>>>>>>>>> The Apache Software Foundation
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Tel +1 617 921 8656 | [hidden email]
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Mon, Sep 9, 2019, at 03:22, Gilles Sadowski wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Hello.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Le sam. 7 sept. 2019 à 13:29, Sally Khudairi <[hidden email]>
>> a écrit :
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Thank you, Gilles. I appreciate you reaching out.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Normally I encourage PMCs to not re-orient or "spindle" the
>> feather
>>>>>>>>>> where possible, but I understand that some legacy logos have a
>> bit of a
>>>>>>>>>> problem with positioning. For example, the Apache HTTP Server
>> logo:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> - original logo https://twitter.com/apache_httpd/photo
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> - interim logo https://britewire.com/apache-http-server/
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> - new logo
>>>>>>>>>>
>> https://svn.apache.org/repos/asf/comdev/project-logos/originals/httpd.svg
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> So is the choice between
>>>>>>>>>>>>> * use the exact same feather as the foundation's
>>>>>>>>>>>>> * not use anything that even remotely looks like feather
>>>>>>>>>>>>> ?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Whilst I understand the proposed design, I'm not *loving* the
>> look of
>>>>>>>>>> the logo, particularly as Apache Commons has such a massive
>> footprint
>>>>>>>>>> across so many projects.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To that end, may I ask a favor?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Would you and the Apache Commons PMC be amenable to
>> considering
>>>>>>>>>> having Central Services --a somewhat new sub-group of ASF
>> Marketing &
>>>>>>>>>> Publicity-- help you with creating a new logo?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Help from experts is welcome.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> If you are not in a rush, we can see how we can help you.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> I don't think we should be in a rush, as the proposal to
>> change the
>>>>>>>>>>>>> projects' logo(s) dates back from 3 years ago.[1]
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ApacheCon North America starts on Monday, and we can start the
>>>>>>>>>> discussions on what your requirements are and the best way to
>> meet your
>>>>>>>>>> needs.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> I can only speak about of my preferences:[2]
>>>>>>>>>>>>> * At most 2 or 3 graphical elements reminiscent of the project
>>>>>>>>>>>>> (feather included, if applicable)
>>>>>>>>>>>>> * No URL
>>>>>>>>>>>>> * Clearly visible at all (reasonable) resolutions [3]
>>>>>>>>>>>>> * Combinable with 1 additional grahical element (so that we can
>>>>>>>>>>>>> easily create one logo for each of the many components hosted
>>>>>>>>>>>>> in "Commons" [4]
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ApacheCon Europe is taking place in October: I was thinking
>> the
>>>>>>>>>> timeframe between the two events (~6 weeks) would be sufficient
>> for us to
>>>>>>>>>> have a few proposals developed.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Great.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> If this works for you, we can get started this week.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Fine with me.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> If not, I understand. You may proceed with the proposed logo
>> with the
>>>>>>>>>> intention of revisiting and updating in future.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Now is a good time.
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Indeed, that logo is not favoured by the community (at least
>> the few
>>>>>>>>>>>>> who voiced their opinion).[5]  And, IMHO, the alternatives are
>> failing
>>>>>>>>>>>>> what I consider basic requirements (cf. above).[6]
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Many kind thanks again for your attention and consideration.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Warm regards,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sally
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Thank you very much for the offer,
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Gilles
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> [1] https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/COMMONSSITE-86
>>>>>>>>>>>>> [2] Discussion thread:
>>>>>>>>>>>>> https://markmail.org/message/twsre7wl6jmue6mp
>>>>>>>>>>>>> [3] For example, when I look at the top left of the Apache's
>> JIRA
>>>>>>>>>> pages:
>>>>>>>>>>>>> https://issues.apache.org/jira/secure/Dashboard.jspa
>>>>>>>>>>>>> I see either a bad logo, or an inadequate use of it.
>>>>>>>>>>>>> [4] See e.g. http://commons.apache.org/proper/commons-rng/
>>>>>>>>>>>>> [5] Lacking feedback, I opted for an upgrade of the feather
>> using
>>>>>>>>>>>>> the foundation's new graphics keeping the old (and supposedly
>>>>>>>>>>>>> consensual) idea for the feather orientation.
>>>>>>>>>>>>> [6] Even though it's great that Loic Guibert was willing to
>> provide
>>>>>>>>>>>>> idea and a few examples.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Tel +1 617 921 8656 | [hidden email]
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Fri, Sep 6, 2019, at 17:18, Gilles Sadowski wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Hello.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> We, at Apache Commons, would like to know whether an Apache
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> project  is authorized to extract graphical elements from the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> foundation's logo, apply some transformation to them, and use
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the result in order to compose its own logo.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Case in point is here:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>> https://svn.apache.org/repos/asf/comdev/project-logos/originals/commons.svg
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> (where the feather has been rotated).
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Does it constitute a breach of the recommendations published
>> in
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the "Identity Style Guide"?[1]
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Thank you,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Gilles Sadowski
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> [1]
>>>>>>>>>>
>> https://apache.org/foundation/press/kit/ApacheFoundation_StyleGuide.pdf
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: [hidden email]
>>>>>>>>>>> For additional commands, e-mail: [hidden email]
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: [hidden email]
>>>>>>>>>> For additional commands, e-mail: [hidden email]
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
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>>>>>>> For additional commands, e-mail: [hidden email]
>>>>>
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>>>>>
>>>>
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>>>>
>>>
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