[CHALLENGE] Move All of Commons to the Dormant

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[CHALLENGE] Move All of Commons to the Dormant

Henri Yandell
I contend that all of the Commons components are inactive and should move
to the Attic/Dormant. In line with Phil's recent suggestion that anyone can
present a dormancy challenge at any time, I'm challenging all of Commons
Proper.

I've made a file in SVN:

    https://svn.apache.org/repos/asf/commons/trunks-proper/CHALLENGE.txt

If committers could put their ids next to components they actively monitor
the commits, JIRA, mailing list for, then we can determine, by elimination,
the components that should be considered for dormancy.

I propose we review the state of the file at the start of November :)

Hen
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Re: [CHALLENGE] Move All of Commons to the Dormant

Phil Steitz
On 10/14/13 8:55 PM, Henri Yandell wrote:

> I contend that all of the Commons components are inactive and should move
> to the Attic/Dormant. In line with Phil's recent suggestion that anyone can
> present a dormancy challenge at any time, I'm challenging all of Commons
> Proper.
>
> I've made a file in SVN:
>
>     https://svn.apache.org/repos/asf/commons/trunks-proper/CHALLENGE.txt
>
> If committers could put their ids next to components they actively monitor
> the commits, JIRA, mailing list for, then we can determine, by elimination,
> the components that should be considered for dormancy.

Thanks, Hen!  Lets see who has a pulse ;)

Lets also let non-committers chime in, though.  I will volunteer to
be commit monkey on this file for anyone not a commons committer who
really wants to work on something.

Phil
>
> I propose we review the state of the file at the start of November :)
>
> Hen
>


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Re: [CHALLENGE] Move All of Commons to the Dormant

Adrian Crum-3
I am willing to help out with CSV. ID = adrianc.

Adrian Crum
Sandglass Software
www.sandglass-software.com

On 10/14/2013 9:14 PM, Phil Steitz wrote:

> On 10/14/13 8:55 PM, Henri Yandell wrote:
>> I contend that all of the Commons components are inactive and should move
>> to the Attic/Dormant. In line with Phil's recent suggestion that anyone can
>> present a dormancy challenge at any time, I'm challenging all of Commons
>> Proper.
>>
>> I've made a file in SVN:
>>
>>      https://svn.apache.org/repos/asf/commons/trunks-proper/CHALLENGE.txt
>>
>> If committers could put their ids next to components they actively monitor
>> the commits, JIRA, mailing list for, then we can determine, by elimination,
>> the components that should be considered for dormancy.
>
> Thanks, Hen!  Lets see who has a pulse ;)
>
> Lets also let non-committers chime in, though.  I will volunteer to
> be commit monkey on this file for anyone not a commons committer who
> really wants to work on something.
>
> Phil
>>
>> I propose we review the state of the file at the start of November :)
>>
>> Hen
>>
>
>
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Re: [CHALLENGE] Move All of Commons to the Dormant

Phil Steitz
In reply to this post by Phil Steitz
On 10/14/13 9:14 PM, Phil Steitz wrote:

> On 10/14/13 8:55 PM, Henri Yandell wrote:
>> I contend that all of the Commons components are inactive and should move
>> to the Attic/Dormant. In line with Phil's recent suggestion that anyone can
>> present a dormancy challenge at any time, I'm challenging all of Commons
>> Proper.
>>
>> I've made a file in SVN:
>>
>>     https://svn.apache.org/repos/asf/commons/trunks-proper/CHALLENGE.txt
>>
>> If committers could put their ids next to components they actively monitor
>> the commits, JIRA, mailing list for, then we can determine, by elimination,
>> the components that should be considered for dormancy.
> Thanks, Hen!  Lets see who has a pulse ;)
>
> Lets also let non-committers chime in, though.  I will volunteer to
> be commit monkey on this file for anyone not a commons committer who
> really wants to work on something.
>
> Phil

I just killed a checkout that was grabbing all trunks to get this
file.  Is there a way to check out just the file, or can we move it
somewhere easier to get to?

I would also propose a slightly higher bar for "blood donors" - you
need to not just "monitor" but be willing to actually do work (as in
apply patches, work on issues, help drive toward release...)

Phil
>> I propose we review the state of the file at the start of November :)
>>
>> Hen
>>


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Re: [CHALLENGE] Move All of Commons to the Dormant

Phil Steitz
In reply to this post by Adrian Crum-3
On 10/14/13 9:26 PM, Adrian Crum wrote:
> I am willing to help out with CSV. ID = adrianc.
Done :)

Phil

>
> Adrian Crum
> Sandglass Software
> www.sandglass-software.com
>
> On 10/14/2013 9:14 PM, Phil Steitz wrote:
>> On 10/14/13 8:55 PM, Henri Yandell wrote:
>>> I contend that all of the Commons components are inactive and
>>> should move
>>> to the Attic/Dormant. In line with Phil's recent suggestion that
>>> anyone can
>>> present a dormancy challenge at any time, I'm challenging all of
>>> Commons
>>> Proper.
>>>
>>> I've made a file in SVN:
>>>
>>>    
>>> https://svn.apache.org/repos/asf/commons/trunks-proper/CHALLENGE.txt
>>>
>>>
>>> If committers could put their ids next to components they
>>> actively monitor
>>> the commits, JIRA, mailing list for, then we can determine, by
>>> elimination,
>>> the components that should be considered for dormancy.
>>
>> Thanks, Hen!  Lets see who has a pulse ;)
>>
>> Lets also let non-committers chime in, though.  I will volunteer to
>> be commit monkey on this file for anyone not a commons committer who
>> really wants to work on something.
>>
>> Phil
>>>
>>> I propose we review the state of the file at the start of
>>> November :)
>>>
>>> Hen
>>>
>>
>>
>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: [hidden email]
>> For additional commands, e-mail: [hidden email]
>>
>
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Re: [CHALLENGE] Move All of Commons to the Dormant

Adrian Crum-3
Thanks! I'm a committer in the sandbox, but I haven't ventured into
proper yet. I was hoping to get Commons Convert promoted to proper
someday. In the meantime I would be happy to work on CSV.

Adrian Crum
Sandglass Software
www.sandglass-software.com

On 10/14/2013 9:32 PM, Phil Steitz wrote:

> On 10/14/13 9:26 PM, Adrian Crum wrote:
>> I am willing to help out with CSV. ID = adrianc.
> Done :)
>
> Phil
>>
>> Adrian Crum
>> Sandglass Software
>> www.sandglass-software.com
>>
>> On 10/14/2013 9:14 PM, Phil Steitz wrote:
>>> On 10/14/13 8:55 PM, Henri Yandell wrote:
>>>> I contend that all of the Commons components are inactive and
>>>> should move
>>>> to the Attic/Dormant. In line with Phil's recent suggestion that
>>>> anyone can
>>>> present a dormancy challenge at any time, I'm challenging all of
>>>> Commons
>>>> Proper.
>>>>
>>>> I've made a file in SVN:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> https://svn.apache.org/repos/asf/commons/trunks-proper/CHALLENGE.txt
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> If committers could put their ids next to components they
>>>> actively monitor
>>>> the commits, JIRA, mailing list for, then we can determine, by
>>>> elimination,
>>>> the components that should be considered for dormancy.
>>>
>>> Thanks, Hen!  Lets see who has a pulse ;)
>>>
>>> Lets also let non-committers chime in, though.  I will volunteer to
>>> be commit monkey on this file for anyone not a commons committer who
>>> really wants to work on something.
>>>
>>> Phil
>>>>
>>>> I propose we review the state of the file at the start of
>>>> November :)
>>>>
>>>> Hen
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>
>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: [hidden email]
>>> For additional commands, e-mail: [hidden email]
>>>
>>
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>> For additional commands, e-mail: [hidden email]
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>>
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Re: [CHALLENGE] Move All of Commons to the Dormant

Henri Yandell
In reply to this post by Phil Steitz
svn co -N https://svn.apache.org/repos/asf/commons/trunks-proper

Happy to move it, also happy to have people pick up a bit of SVN usefulness
:)

I've lifted the definition to:

"(you monitor commits, JIRA, mail, and develop code for that component)"




On Mon, Oct 14, 2013 at 9:27 PM, Phil Steitz <[hidden email]> wrote:

> On 10/14/13 9:14 PM, Phil Steitz wrote:
> > On 10/14/13 8:55 PM, Henri Yandell wrote:
> >> I contend that all of the Commons components are inactive and should
> move
> >> to the Attic/Dormant. In line with Phil's recent suggestion that anyone
> can
> >> present a dormancy challenge at any time, I'm challenging all of Commons
> >> Proper.
> >>
> >> I've made a file in SVN:
> >>
> >>
> https://svn.apache.org/repos/asf/commons/trunks-proper/CHALLENGE.txt
> >>
> >> If committers could put their ids next to components they actively
> monitor
> >> the commits, JIRA, mailing list for, then we can determine, by
> elimination,
> >> the components that should be considered for dormancy.
> > Thanks, Hen!  Lets see who has a pulse ;)
> >
> > Lets also let non-committers chime in, though.  I will volunteer to
> > be commit monkey on this file for anyone not a commons committer who
> > really wants to work on something.
> >
> > Phil
>
> I just killed a checkout that was grabbing all trunks to get this
> file.  Is there a way to check out just the file, or can we move it
> somewhere easier to get to?
>
> I would also propose a slightly higher bar for "blood donors" - you
> need to not just "monitor" but be willing to actually do work (as in
> apply patches, work on issues, help drive toward release...)
>
> Phil
> >> I propose we review the state of the file at the start of November :)
> >>
> >> Hen
> >>
>
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: [hidden email]
> For additional commands, e-mail: [hidden email]
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Re: [CHALLENGE] Move All of Commons to the Dormant

Dave Brosius-2
In reply to this post by Henri Yandell
I vote -1 to this process. I see no value in attic-izing projects.



On 10/14/2013 11:55 PM, Henri Yandell wrote:

> I contend that all of the Commons components are inactive and should move
> to the Attic/Dormant. In line with Phil's recent suggestion that anyone can
> present a dormancy challenge at any time, I'm challenging all of Commons
> Proper.
>
> I've made a file in SVN:
>
>      https://svn.apache.org/repos/asf/commons/trunks-proper/CHALLENGE.txt
>
> If committers could put their ids next to components they actively monitor
> the commits, JIRA, mailing list for, then we can determine, by elimination,
> the components that should be considered for dormancy.
>
> I propose we review the state of the file at the start of November :)
>
> Hen
>


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Re: [CHALLENGE] Move All of Commons to the Dormant

Henri Yandell
Three values jump out to me:

* First is for our users. Having code available that no one is supporting
while giving the appearance of support (ie: active Commons) is a bad
experience.
* Second (generally for the ASF) is that if we have code we can't maintain,
because there is no one who can handle some critical issue, then we
shouldn't be treating it as a live project. That's always been something
Commons could get around by knowing that some of the committers will dig
into unknown component A and figure out what the critical issue is in the
rare times it's come up.
* Third is that it provides focus to not be trying to fix all of the
inactive components when we change the build or site. Though perhaps we
just leave it all broken anyway :)

Hen

On Mon, Oct 14, 2013 at 9:40 PM, Dave Brosius <[hidden email]> wrote:

> I vote -1 to this process. I see no value in attic-izing projects.
>
>
>
>
> On 10/14/2013 11:55 PM, Henri Yandell wrote:
>
>> I contend that all of the Commons components are inactive and should move
>> to the Attic/Dormant. In line with Phil's recent suggestion that anyone
>> can
>> present a dormancy challenge at any time, I'm challenging all of Commons
>> Proper.
>>
>> I've made a file in SVN:
>>
>>      https://svn.apache.org/repos/**asf/commons/trunks-proper/**
>> CHALLENGE.txt<https://svn.apache.org/repos/asf/commons/trunks-proper/CHALLENGE.txt>
>>
>> If committers could put their ids next to components they actively monitor
>> the commits, JIRA, mailing list for, then we can determine, by
>> elimination,
>> the components that should be considered for dormancy.
>>
>> I propose we review the state of the file at the start of November :)
>>
>> Hen
>>
>>
>
> ------------------------------**------------------------------**---------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@commons.**apache.org<[hidden email]>
> For additional commands, e-mail: [hidden email]
>
>
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Re: [CHALLENGE] Move All of Commons to the Dormant

Dave Brosius-2
Perhaps for new users, however there are lots of projects currently
using these libraries. We are extending the middle finger to them by
doing this. I would come away thinking i'm not going to risk using any
Apache library, if I they will  just yank away the next project i choose
to use sometime in the near future. I'm fine with putting a message on
the site that says, this project is in desperate need of supporters,
developers, testers, documentation folks, etc, etc. without which
maintenance and support will be next to impossible. That would warn new
users fairly enough imo.

dave



A project is only one of these clients needing a fix away from re-engaging.

On 10/15/2013 12:59 AM, Henri Yandell wrote:

> Three values jump out to me:
>
> * First is for our users. Having code available that no one is supporting
> while giving the appearance of support (ie: active Commons) is a bad
> experience.
> * Second (generally for the ASF) is that if we have code we can't maintain,
> because there is no one who can handle some critical issue, then we
> shouldn't be treating it as a live project. That's always been something
> Commons could get around by knowing that some of the committers will dig
> into unknown component A and figure out what the critical issue is in the
> rare times it's come up.
> * Third is that it provides focus to not be trying to fix all of the
> inactive components when we change the build or site. Though perhaps we
> just leave it all broken anyway :)
>
> Hen
>
> On Mon, Oct 14, 2013 at 9:40 PM, Dave Brosius <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
>> I vote -1 to this process. I see no value in attic-izing projects.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On 10/14/2013 11:55 PM, Henri Yandell wrote:
>>
>>> I contend that all of the Commons components are inactive and should move
>>> to the Attic/Dormant. In line with Phil's recent suggestion that anyone
>>> can
>>> present a dormancy challenge at any time, I'm challenging all of Commons
>>> Proper.
>>>
>>> I've made a file in SVN:
>>>
>>>       https://svn.apache.org/repos/**asf/commons/trunks-proper/**
>>> CHALLENGE.txt<https://svn.apache.org/repos/asf/commons/trunks-proper/CHALLENGE.txt>
>>>
>>> If committers could put their ids next to components they actively monitor
>>> the commits, JIRA, mailing list for, then we can determine, by
>>> elimination,
>>> the components that should be considered for dormancy.
>>>
>>> I propose we review the state of the file at the start of November :)
>>>
>>> Hen
>>>
>>>
>> ------------------------------**------------------------------**---------
>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@commons.**apache.org<[hidden email]>
>> For additional commands, e-mail: [hidden email]
>>
>>


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Re: [CHALLENGE] Move All of Commons to the Dormant

Benedikt Ritter-3


> Am 15.10.2013 um 07:14 schrieb Dave Brosius <[hidden email]>:
>
> Perhaps for new users, however there are lots of projects currently using these libraries. We are extending the middle finger to them by doing this. I would come away thinking i'm not going to risk using any Apache library, if I they will  just yank away the next project i choose to use sometime in the near future. I'm fine with putting a message on the site that says, this project is in desperate need of supporters, developers, testers, documentation folks, etc, etc. without which maintenance and support will be next to impossible. That would warn new users fairly enough imo.

That's basically what dormant means...

>
> dave
>
>
>
> A project is only one of these clients needing a fix away from re-engaging.
>
> On 10/15/2013 12:59 AM, Henri Yandell wrote:
>> Three values jump out to me:
>>
>> * First is for our users. Having code available that no one is supporting
>> while giving the appearance of support (ie: active Commons) is a bad
>> experience.
>> * Second (generally for the ASF) is that if we have code we can't maintain,
>> because there is no one who can handle some critical issue, then we
>> shouldn't be treating it as a live project. That's always been something
>> Commons could get around by knowing that some of the committers will dig
>> into unknown component A and figure out what the critical issue is in the
>> rare times it's come up.
>> * Third is that it provides focus to not be trying to fix all of the
>> inactive components when we change the build or site. Though perhaps we
>> just leave it all broken anyway :)
>>
>> Hen
>>
>>> On Mon, Oct 14, 2013 at 9:40 PM, Dave Brosius <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>>
>>> I vote -1 to this process. I see no value in attic-izing projects.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>> On 10/14/2013 11:55 PM, Henri Yandell wrote:
>>>>
>>>> I contend that all of the Commons components are inactive and should move
>>>> to the Attic/Dormant. In line with Phil's recent suggestion that anyone
>>>> can
>>>> present a dormancy challenge at any time, I'm challenging all of Commons
>>>> Proper.
>>>>
>>>> I've made a file in SVN:
>>>>
>>>>      https://svn.apache.org/repos/**asf/commons/trunks-proper/**
>>>> CHALLENGE.txt<https://svn.apache.org/repos/asf/commons/trunks-proper/CHALLENGE.txt>
>>>>
>>>> If committers could put their ids next to components they actively monitor
>>>> the commits, JIRA, mailing list for, then we can determine, by
>>>> elimination,
>>>> the components that should be considered for dormancy.
>>>>
>>>> I propose we review the state of the file at the start of November :)
>>>>
>>>> Hen
>>> ------------------------------**------------------------------**---------
>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@commons.**apache.org<[hidden email]>
>>> For additional commands, e-mail: [hidden email]
>
>
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Re: [CHALLENGE] Move All of Commons to the Dormant

Dave Brosius-2
I couldn't disagree more. Dormant/attic means the project has leprosy. I
don't know the answer to this, but wondering, has there ever been a
commit to an attic'ed project? I personally would never think of doing that.



On 10/15/2013 01:22 AM, Benedikt Ritter wrote:

>
>> Am 15.10.2013 um 07:14 schrieb Dave Brosius <[hidden email]>:
>>
>> Perhaps for new users, however there are lots of projects currently using these libraries. We are extending the middle finger to them by doing this. I would come away thinking i'm not going to risk using any Apache library, if I they will  just yank away the next project i choose to use sometime in the near future. I'm fine with putting a message on the site that says, this project is in desperate need of supporters, developers, testers, documentation folks, etc, etc. without which maintenance and support will be next to impossible. That would warn new users fairly enough imo.
> That's basically what dormant means...
>
>> dave
>>
>>
>>
>> A project is only one of these clients needing a fix away from re-engaging.
>>
>> On 10/15/2013 12:59 AM, Henri Yandell wrote:
>>> Three values jump out to me:
>>>
>>> * First is for our users. Having code available that no one is supporting
>>> while giving the appearance of support (ie: active Commons) is a bad
>>> experience.
>>> * Second (generally for the ASF) is that if we have code we can't maintain,
>>> because there is no one who can handle some critical issue, then we
>>> shouldn't be treating it as a live project. That's always been something
>>> Commons could get around by knowing that some of the committers will dig
>>> into unknown component A and figure out what the critical issue is in the
>>> rare times it's come up.
>>> * Third is that it provides focus to not be trying to fix all of the
>>> inactive components when we change the build or site. Though perhaps we
>>> just leave it all broken anyway :)
>>>
>>> Hen
>>>
>>>> On Mon, Oct 14, 2013 at 9:40 PM, Dave Brosius <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> I vote -1 to this process. I see no value in attic-izing projects.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> On 10/14/2013 11:55 PM, Henri Yandell wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> I contend that all of the Commons components are inactive and should move
>>>>> to the Attic/Dormant. In line with Phil's recent suggestion that anyone
>>>>> can
>>>>> present a dormancy challenge at any time, I'm challenging all of Commons
>>>>> Proper.
>>>>>
>>>>> I've made a file in SVN:
>>>>>
>>>>>       https://svn.apache.org/repos/**asf/commons/trunks-proper/**
>>>>> CHALLENGE.txt<https://svn.apache.org/repos/asf/commons/trunks-proper/CHALLENGE.txt>
>>>>>
>>>>> If committers could put their ids next to components they actively monitor
>>>>> the commits, JIRA, mailing list for, then we can determine, by
>>>>> elimination,
>>>>> the components that should be considered for dormancy.
>>>>>
>>>>> I propose we review the state of the file at the start of November :)
>>>>>
>>>>> Hen
>>>> ------------------------------**------------------------------**---------
>>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@commons.**apache.org<[hidden email]>
>>>> For additional commands, e-mail: [hidden email]
>>
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Re: [CHALLENGE] Move All of Commons to the Dormant

Phil Steitz
In reply to this post by Henri Yandell
On 10/14/13 9:59 PM, Henri Yandell wrote:

> Three values jump out to me:
>
> * First is for our users. Having code available that no one is supporting
> while giving the appearance of support (ie: active Commons) is a bad
> experience.
> * Second (generally for the ASF) is that if we have code we can't maintain,
> because there is no one who can handle some critical issue, then we
> shouldn't be treating it as a live project. That's always been something
> Commons could get around by knowing that some of the committers will dig
> into unknown component A and figure out what the critical issue is in the
> rare times it's come up.
> * Third is that it provides focus to not be trying to fix all of the
> inactive components when we change the build or site. Though perhaps we
> just leave it all broken anyway :)

Fourth, we have a "dormant" designation now and we really should
have been doing this since we agreed to that quite a few years
back.  If we want to get rid of the dormant designation then we
should agree to drop that designation altogether.  Don't you think
its better to be honest with users about what is being maintained?
As long as there is a low bar to revive, what exactly is the loss in
doing this?

Phil

>
> Hen
>
> On Mon, Oct 14, 2013 at 9:40 PM, Dave Brosius <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
>> I vote -1 to this process. I see no value in attic-izing projects.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On 10/14/2013 11:55 PM, Henri Yandell wrote:
>>
>>> I contend that all of the Commons components are inactive and should move
>>> to the Attic/Dormant. In line with Phil's recent suggestion that anyone
>>> can
>>> present a dormancy challenge at any time, I'm challenging all of Commons
>>> Proper.
>>>
>>> I've made a file in SVN:
>>>
>>>      https://svn.apache.org/repos/**asf/commons/trunks-proper/**
>>> CHALLENGE.txt<https://svn.apache.org/repos/asf/commons/trunks-proper/CHALLENGE.txt>
>>>
>>> If committers could put their ids next to components they actively monitor
>>> the commits, JIRA, mailing list for, then we can determine, by
>>> elimination,
>>> the components that should be considered for dormancy.
>>>
>>> I propose we review the state of the file at the start of November :)
>>>
>>> Hen
>>>
>>>
>> ------------------------------**------------------------------**---------
>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@commons.**apache.org<[hidden email]>
>> For additional commands, e-mail: [hidden email]
>>
>>


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Re: [CHALLENGE] Move All of Commons to the Dormant

Phil Steitz
In reply to this post by Dave Brosius-2
On 10/14/13 10:33 PM, Dave Brosius wrote:
> I couldn't disagree more. Dormant/attic means the project has
> leprosy. I don't know the answer to this, but wondering, has there
> ever been a commit to an attic'ed project? I personally would
> never think of doing that.

There have been commons components moved back from dormant.  Functor
is one.  I think there have been others.  If we keep the svn in
place, as I have proposed for commons proper components (don't
actually move them), that makes it even easier.

Phil

>
>
>
> On 10/15/2013 01:22 AM, Benedikt Ritter wrote:
>>
>>> Am 15.10.2013 um 07:14 schrieb Dave Brosius <[hidden email]>:
>>>
>>> Perhaps for new users, however there are lots of projects
>>> currently using these libraries. We are extending the middle
>>> finger to them by doing this. I would come away thinking i'm not
>>> going to risk using any Apache library, if I they will  just
>>> yank away the next project i choose to use sometime in the near
>>> future. I'm fine with putting a message on the site that says,
>>> this project is in desperate need of supporters, developers,
>>> testers, documentation folks, etc, etc. without which
>>> maintenance and support will be next to impossible. That would
>>> warn new users fairly enough imo.
>> That's basically what dormant means...
>>
>>> dave
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> A project is only one of these clients needing a fix away from
>>> re-engaging.
>>>
>>> On 10/15/2013 12:59 AM, Henri Yandell wrote:
>>>> Three values jump out to me:
>>>>
>>>> * First is for our users. Having code available that no one is
>>>> supporting
>>>> while giving the appearance of support (ie: active Commons) is
>>>> a bad
>>>> experience.
>>>> * Second (generally for the ASF) is that if we have code we
>>>> can't maintain,
>>>> because there is no one who can handle some critical issue,
>>>> then we
>>>> shouldn't be treating it as a live project. That's always been
>>>> something
>>>> Commons could get around by knowing that some of the committers
>>>> will dig
>>>> into unknown component A and figure out what the critical issue
>>>> is in the
>>>> rare times it's come up.
>>>> * Third is that it provides focus to not be trying to fix all
>>>> of the
>>>> inactive components when we change the build or site. Though
>>>> perhaps we
>>>> just leave it all broken anyway :)
>>>>
>>>> Hen
>>>>
>>>>> On Mon, Oct 14, 2013 at 9:40 PM, Dave Brosius
>>>>> <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> I vote -1 to this process. I see no value in attic-izing
>>>>> projects.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> On 10/14/2013 11:55 PM, Henri Yandell wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I contend that all of the Commons components are inactive and
>>>>>> should move
>>>>>> to the Attic/Dormant. In line with Phil's recent suggestion
>>>>>> that anyone
>>>>>> can
>>>>>> present a dormancy challenge at any time, I'm challenging all
>>>>>> of Commons
>>>>>> Proper.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I've made a file in SVN:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>      
>>>>>> https://svn.apache.org/repos/**asf/commons/trunks-proper/**
>>>>>> CHALLENGE.txt<https://svn.apache.org/repos/asf/commons/trunks-proper/CHALLENGE.txt>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> If committers could put their ids next to components they
>>>>>> actively monitor
>>>>>> the commits, JIRA, mailing list for, then we can determine, by
>>>>>> elimination,
>>>>>> the components that should be considered for dormancy.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I propose we review the state of the file at the start of
>>>>>> November :)
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Hen
>>>>> ------------------------------**------------------------------**---------
>>>>>
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Re: [CHALLENGE] Move All of Commons to the Dormant

Paul Libbrecht-4
In reply to this post by Dave Brosius-2
Le 15 oct. 2013 à 07:33, Dave Brosius <[hidden email]> a écrit :
> I couldn't disagree more. Dormant/attic means the project has leprosy. I don't know the answer to this, but wondering, has there ever been a commit to an attic'ed project? I personally would never think of doing that.

As probably the only person that "supports"' Jelly, a dormant to be for sure, I find the word leprosy outrageous.

I am happy to stay on list, I even read posts regularly, but I cannot find time or motivation to fix bugs or do new releases. I respond to any Jelly question I find.

Jelly has gone 1.0 and is in use here and there.
I would expect users to be interested to make it advance to come to jira and suggest fixes; I am happy to negotiate them and apply them, and maybe, if things get excited, there might be a release one day.

However, moving it to a place where you would never commit would sign its death.

Paul

PS: there's a zillion software units not in active development running in your own computer and they do their job.
PPS: is this thread the thread I should find instructions with to make sure Jelly is not retired? That's not what I have seen but I fear having missed something.
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Re: [CHALLENGE] Move All of Commons to the Dormant

Phil Steitz
On 10/14/13 10:59 PM, Paul Libbrecht wrote:

> Le 15 oct. 2013 à 07:33, Dave Brosius <[hidden email]> a écrit :
>> I couldn't disagree more. Dormant/attic means the project has leprosy. I don't know the answer to this, but wondering, has there ever been a commit to an attic'ed project? I personally would never think of doing that.
> As probably the only person that "supports"' Jelly, a dormant to be for sure, I find the word leprosy outrageous.
>
> I am happy to stay on list, I even read posts regularly, but I cannot find time or motivation to fix bugs or do new releases. I respond to any Jelly question I find.
>
> Jelly has gone 1.0 and is in use here and there.
> I would expect users to be interested to make it advance to come to jira and suggest fixes; I am happy to negotiate them and apply them, and maybe, if things get excited, there might be a release one day.
>
> However, moving it to a place where you would never commit would sign its death.

The proposal is not to move it anywhere, just designate it as
dormant so people know no one is currently working on it.  Honestly,
it is basically *acknowledging* its currently dead state.  If you
intend to work on it, you can commit to the svn file hen posted top
of this thread.  If you disagree with the whole idea of designating
things as dormant, you can state that here.  I don't get the
awfulness of saying something is dormant.  Says nothing about the
quality or usefulness or whether someone might pick it up later -
just nobody is working on it now.

Phil

>
> Paul
>
> PS: there's a zillion software units not in active development running in your own computer and they do their job.
> PPS: is this thread the thread I should find instructions with to make sure Jelly is not retired? That's not what I have seen but I fear having missed something.
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Re: [CHALLENGE] Move All of Commons to the Dormant

Bernd Eckenfels
In reply to this post by Phil Steitz
I am not happy about the challange, but if you have the file open can you please add me as active contributor to VFS2? Thanks.

> Am 15.10.2013 um 06:14 schrieb Phil Steitz <[hidden email]>:
>
>> On 10/14/13 8:55 PM, Henri Yandell wrote:
>> I contend that all of the Commons components are inactive and should move
>> to the Attic/Dormant. In line with Phil's recent suggestion that anyone can
>> present a dormancy challenge at any time, I'm challenging all of Commons
>> Proper.
>>
>> I've made a file in SVN:
>>
>>    https://svn.apache.org/repos/asf/commons/trunks-proper/CHALLENGE.txt
>>
>> If committers could put their ids next to components they actively monitor
>> the commits, JIRA, mailing list for, then we can determine, by elimination,
>> the components that should be considered for dormancy.
>
> Thanks, Hen!  Lets see who has a pulse ;)
>
> Lets also let non-committers chime in, though.  I will volunteer to
> be commit monkey on this file for anyone not a commons committer who
> really wants to work on something.
>
> Phil
>>
>> I propose we review the state of the file at the start of November :)
>>
>> Hen
>>
>
>
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Re: [CHALLENGE] Move All of Commons to the Dormant

Paul Libbrecht-4
In reply to this post by Phil Steitz
Phil,

> The proposal is not to move it anywhere, just designate it as
> dormant so people know no one is currently working on it.  Honestly,
> it is basically *acknowledging* its currently dead state.

Absolutely!

> If you intend to work on it, you can commit to the svn file hen posted top
> of this thread.  If you disagree with the whole idea of designating
> things as dormant, you can state that here.  I don't get the
> awfulness of saying something is dormant.  Says nothing about the
> quality or usefulness or whether someone might pick it up later -
> just nobody is working on it now.


I did not say I am against dormant. On the contrary, the term is perfectly chosen.
(in French, this word is mostly used in the tale of sleeping beauty, la belle au bois dormant).

I was against "leprosy". Also I would fight against anything that would prevent new commits.

Also, can someone answer the question about the CHallenge being properly open in file:
  CHALLENGE.txt<https://svn.apache.org/repos/asf/commons/trunks-proper/CHALLENGE.txt>
Someone mentioned changing the place but was that done?

thanks

Paul



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Re: [CHALLENGE] Move All of Commons to the Dormant

Jörg Schaible-3
In reply to this post by Phil Steitz
Phil Steitz wrote:

> I just killed a checkout that was grabbing all trunks to get this
> file.  Is there a way to check out just the file, or can we move it
> somewhere easier to get to?

svn co -N https://svn.apache.org/repos/asf/commons/trunks-proper/

;-)


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Re: [CHALLENGE] Move All of Commons to the Dormant

Emmanuel Bourg-3
In reply to this post by Dave Brosius-2
Le 15/10/2013 07:33, Dave Brosius a écrit :
> I couldn't disagree more. Dormant/attic means the project has leprosy. I
> don't know the answer to this, but wondering, has there ever been a
> commit to an attic'ed project? I personally would never think of doing
> that.

+1

I wouldn't use such a strong word, but I agree that putting a component
in the dormant state is the best recipe to repel any contribution.

I'd prefer a "help wanted" flag on the components still useful but
needing more contributors, and "obsolete" for the components abandoned
because a better alternative exists.

Emmanuel Bourg


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