Fwd: Re: [betwixt] Time and memory performance

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Fwd: Re: [betwixt] Time and memory performance

Kirill Grouchnikov
CC'ing the original list

--- Kirill Grouchnikov <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Date: Tue, 9 Aug 2005 06:22:09 -0700 (PDT)
> From: Kirill Grouchnikov <[hidden email]>
> Subject: Re: [betwixt] Time and memory performance
> To: sebb <[hidden email]>
>
> > The Summary page does not seem to mention the minimum
> > version of Java
> > required to run the various products. This would be a
> > useful addition.
>
> A link to each library is provided. I wouldn't want to
> copy
> too much information as it can get out of sync very
> quick.
> For JAXB 2.0 there is a specific mention that it requires
> 5.0+.
>
> > Likewise it would be useful if the licensing and
> > re-distribution
> > requirements were noted.
>
> Same as above. Keeping track of licenses is not one of
> the
> project goals.
>
> >
> > Also, it says that JAXB consists of 5 jars, 2.4MB.
> > However, all I
> > could find on the Sun Website was a link to Java Web
> > Services
> > Developer pack 1.6, which is 27MB or 30MB in size. It
> > would be useful
> > to include download size (and ease of use finding the
> > jars!)
>
> The jars include only runtime jars (how bigger your
> application gets when it uses the specific library).
>
>
> > XStream is normally used with XPP - did you test with
> > this? If so,
> > which version?
>
> xpp3.jar
>
> Regards
> Kirill
>
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Re: Re: [betwixt] Time and memory performance

sebb-2-2
On 09/08/05, Kirill Grouchnikov <[hidden email]> wrote:

> CC'ing the original list
> --- Kirill Grouchnikov <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> > Date: Tue, 9 Aug 2005 06:22:09 -0700 (PDT)
> > From: Kirill Grouchnikov <[hidden email]>
> > Subject: Re: [betwixt] Time and memory performance
> > To: sebb <[hidden email]>
> >
> > > The Summary page does not seem to mention the minimum
> > > version of Java
> > > required to run the various products. This would be a
> > > useful addition.
> >
> > A link to each library is provided. I wouldn't want to
> > copy
> > too much information as it can get out of sync very
> > quick.
> > For JAXB 2.0 there is a specific mention that it requires
> > 5.0+.

IMO it's important for usability.
And it won't change for a given version of the library.

> >
> > > Likewise it would be useful if the licensing and
> > > re-distribution
> > > requirements were noted.
> >
> > Same as above. Keeping track of licenses is not one of
> > the
> > project goals.
> >

But it does form part of the usability.
And the licence is unlikely to change, particularly for a specific version.

> > >
> > > Also, it says that JAXB consists of 5 jars, 2.4MB.
> > > However, all I
> > > could find on the Sun Website was a link to Java Web
> > > Services
> > > Developer pack 1.6, which is 27MB or 30MB in size. It
> > > would be useful
> > > to include download size (and ease of use finding the
> > > jars!)
> >
> > The jars include only runtime jars (how bigger your
> > application gets when it uses the specific library).
> >

However, one of the criteria on the FAQ page includes the following:

* The time to download [...]

> >
> > > XStream is normally used with XPP - did you test with
> > > this? If so,
> > > which version?
> >
> > xpp3.jar

There are various different versions of xpp3; the one currently linked
from the xstream web-site is:

xpp3_min-1.1.3.4.I.jar

Was it this one? Or perhaps a later one?

> >
> > Regards

Thanks for the prompt response.

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Re: Fwd: Re: [betwixt] Time and memory performance

Jacob Kjome
In reply to this post by Kirill Grouchnikov
Quoting Kirill Grouchnikov <[hidden email]>:

> CC'ing the original list
>
> --- Kirill Grouchnikov <[hidden email]> wrote:
> > > XStream is normally used with XPP - did you test with
> > > this? If so,
> > > which version?
> >
> > xpp3.jar

You've succeeded in narrowing the version down to a little less than a 2 year
period.  It's like say that you use Struts-1.2.  There are major differences
between 1.2 and 1.2.7, so saying 1.2 means next to nothing.  Exactly which
version do you mean?
http://www.extreme.indiana.edu/dist/java-repository/xpp3/jars/

Jake

> >
> > Regards
> > Kirill



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Re: Fwd: Re: [betwixt] Time and memory performance

Kirill Grouchnikov
The one linked from the download homepage of XStream 1.1.1
at the time it was announced.

--- Jacob Kjome <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Quoting Kirill Grouchnikov <[hidden email]>:
>
> > CC'ing the original list
> >
> > --- Kirill Grouchnikov <[hidden email]> wrote:
> > > > XStream is normally used with XPP - did you test
> with
> > > > this? If so,
> > > > which version?
> > >
> > > xpp3.jar
>
> You've succeeded in narrowing the version down to a
> little less than a 2 year
> period.  It's like say that you use Struts-1.2.  There
> are major differences
> between 1.2 and 1.2.7, so saying 1.2 means next to
> nothing.  Exactly which
> version do you mean?
>
http://www.extreme.indiana.edu/dist/java-repository/xpp3/jars/

>
> Jake
>
> > >
> > > Regards
> > > Kirill
>
>
>
>
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Re: Re: [betwixt] Time and memory performance

Kirill Grouchnikov
In reply to this post by sebb-2-2
> > > A link to each library is provided. I wouldn't want
> to
> > > copy
> > > too much information as it can get out of sync very
> > > quick.
> > > For JAXB 2.0 there is a specific mention that it
> requires
> > > 5.0+.
>
> IMO it's important for usability.
> And it won't change for a given version of the library.

As said before, i do not intend to provide complete
information on each library. There's a link to the library
homepage to see more information. As stated on the project
homepage, the benchmark is run under JDK 5.0_02, so i don
not differentiate between libraries that run on 1.1.4 and
on 1.4.2 only.

> > > > Likewise it would be useful if the licensing and
> > > > re-distribution
> > > > requirements were noted.
> > >
> > > Same as above. Keeping track of licenses is not one
> of
> > > the
> > > project goals.
> > >
>
> But it does form part of the usability.
> And the licence is unlikely to change, particularly for a
> specific version.

Once again, same as above (especially tracking down
licenses for dependant libraries).

>
> > > >
> > > > Also, it says that JAXB consists of 5 jars, 2.4MB.
> > > > However, all I
> > > > could find on the Sun Website was a link to Java
> Web
> > > > Services
> > > > Developer pack 1.6, which is 27MB or 30MB in size.
> It
> > > > would be useful
> > > > to include download size (and ease of use finding
> the
> > > > jars!)
> > >
> > > The jars include only runtime jars (how bigger your
> > > application gets when it uses the specific library).
> > >
>
> However, one of the criteria on the FAQ page includes the
> following:
>
> * The time to download [...]

A minor one (especially since i'm on DSL line both at work
and at home). More important is the number of runtime jars
- for build.xml, but that's also a minor issue compared to
other bullets in the list. Thanks for pointing out though,
i'll add JAXB DL size to negative points, but it will not
affect the library size.

>
> > >
> > > > XStream is normally used with XPP - did you test
> with
> > > > this? If so,
> > > > which version?
> > >
> > > xpp3.jar
>
> There are various different versions of xpp3; the one
> currently linked
> from the xstream web-site is:
>
> xpp3_min-1.1.3.4.I.jar
>
> Was it this one? Or perhaps a later one?
>

I see now that they have a new version out (1.1.2). I'll
evaluate it this weekend (along with the linked XPP
library). I don't remember the exact version of XPP linked
back when XStream was at 1.1.1

Regards
Kirill

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Re: Re: [betwixt] Time and memory performance

Kirill Grouchnikov
> > There are various different versions of xpp3; the one
> > currently linked
> > from the xstream web-site is:
> >
> > xpp3_min-1.1.3.4.I.jar
> >
> > Was it this one? Or perhaps a later one?
> >
>
> I see now that they have a new version out (1.1.2). I'll
> evaluate it this weekend (along with the linked XPP
> library). I don't remember the exact version of XPP
> linked
> back when XStream was at 1.1.1

Small correction to the above - XStream 1.1.2 is already
evaluated. The XPP3 library version, however, is 1.1.2 and
not 1.1.3.4.I. Some drastic changes in XPP3 since 1.1.2?

Kirill

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Re: Re: [betwixt] Time and memory performance

sebb-2-2
On 09/08/05, Kirill Grouchnikov <[hidden email]> wrote:

> > > There are various different versions of xpp3; the one
> > > currently linked
> > > from the xstream web-site is:
> > >
> > > xpp3_min-1.1.3.4.I.jar
> > >
> > > Was it this one? Or perhaps a later one?
> > >
> >
> > I see now that they have a new version out (1.1.2). I'll
> > evaluate it this weekend (along with the linked XPP
> > library). I don't remember the exact version of XPP
> > linked
> > back when XStream was at 1.1.1
>
> Small correction to the above - XStream 1.1.2 is already
> evaluated. The XPP3 library version, however, is 1.1.2 and

No such version of XPP3, as far as I can tell:

http://www.extreme.indiana.edu/dist/java-repository/xpp3/jars/

> not 1.1.3.4.I. Some drastic changes in XPP3 since 1.1.2?

Dunno.

The version included in the linked xstream-1.1.2.zip file is
xpp3-1.1.3.4d_b4_min.jar - was this what you used?

This may seem like nitpicking, but given that XPP3 is optional, I
think it's useful to record what was used.

> Kirill
>
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Re: Re: [betwixt] Time and memory performance

Kirill Grouchnikov
> No such version of XPP3, as far as I can tell:
>
>
http://www.extreme.indiana.edu/dist/java-repository/xpp3/jars/
>

I'll test XStream with the newest XPP3 version. The 1.1.2
was taken from xpp3.jar min_version file (you can take the
xpp3.jar from bindmark cvs repository drop/jars dir).

> > not 1.1.3.4.I. Some drastic changes in XPP3 since
> 1.1.2?
>
> Dunno.
>
> The version included in the linked xstream-1.1.2.zip file
> is
> xpp3-1.1.3.4d_b4_min.jar - was this what you used?
>
> This may seem like nitpicking, but given that XPP3 is
> optional, I
> think it's useful to record what was used.

I'll add it to a new FAQ entry, because there's no place to
put this information in the description (short of listing
all jars for every library tested).

Kirill


               
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Re: Re: [betwixt] Time and memory performance

sebb-2-2
On 09/08/05, Kirill Grouchnikov <[hidden email]> wrote:
> > No such version of XPP3, as far as I can tell:
> >
> >
> http://www.extreme.indiana.edu/dist/java-repository/xpp3/jars/
> >
>
> I'll test XStream with the newest XPP3 version. The 1.1.2
> was taken from xpp3.jar min_version file (you can take the
> xpp3.jar from bindmark cvs repository drop/jars dir).

Looks like an old version then, because the xpp3.jar included in
xstream-1.1.1.zip has the following dummy file in it:

XPP3_1.1.3.4d_b4_MIN_VERSION

Something is a bit strange here.

>
> > > not 1.1.3.4.I. Some drastic changes in XPP3 since
> > 1.1.2?
> >
> > Dunno.
> >
> > The version included in the linked xstream-1.1.2.zip file
> > is
> > xpp3-1.1.3.4d_b4_min.jar - was this what you used?
> >
> > This may seem like nitpicking, but given that XPP3 is
> > optional, I
> > think it's useful to record what was used.
>
> I'll add it to a new FAQ entry, because there's no place to
> put this information in the description (short of listing
> all jars for every library tested).

That may well be required for proper comparisons.

But it's particularly important for optional jars.

> Kirill
>
>
>
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Re: Re: [betwixt] Time and memory performance

Kirill Grouchnikov
> Looks like an old version then, because the xpp3.jar
> included in
> xstream-1.1.1.zip has the following dummy file in it:
>
> XPP3_1.1.3.4d_b4_MIN_VERSION
>
> Something is a bit strange here.

It may well be that xpp3.jar in the current BindMark
distribution was taken from another library (as bundled). I
guess that when new XStream version was taken, i didn't
override the old xpp3.jar.

As said, i'll test it this weekend.

Kirill

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