Move Site from CMS to Git

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Move Site from CMS to Git

jochen-2
Hi,

I'd like to have our site moved away from the CMS to Git. Because, if
we have done that, we can also have a set of buildjobs created, that
watch on commits, rebuild the site, and commit the updated site. Right
now, I view the site as a nightmare.

WDYT?

Jochen


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Re: Move Site from CMS to Git

Benedikt Ritter-4
Hi Jochen,

Jochen Wiedmann <[hidden email]> schrieb am Do., 18. Aug. 2016
um 09:03 Uhr:

> Hi,
>
> I'd like to have our site moved away from the CMS to Git. Because, if
> we have done that, we can also have a set of buildjobs created, that
> watch on commits, rebuild the site, and commit the updated site. Right
> now, I view the site as a nightmare.
>
> WDYT?
>

I always thought our SVN/CMS workflow is mandatory. Do you know projects
who use git for site publication already?

Benedikt


>
> Jochen
>
>
> --
> The next time you hear: "Don't reinvent the wheel!"
>
>
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Re: Move Site from CMS to Git

jochen-2
On Thu, Aug 18, 2016 at 12:28 PM, Benedikt Ritter <[hidden email]> wrote:

> I always thought our SVN/CMS workflow is mandatory. Do you know projects
> who use git for site publication already?

According to Infra, it isn't mandatory. See
https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/INFRA-12228. (This is regarding
the Juneau Incubating project, but I have also seen it in AsterixDB.
Besides, Creadur (Rat) is about to switch.

Jochen


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Re: Move Site from CMS to Git

Benedikt Ritter-4
Jochen Wiedmann <[hidden email]> schrieb am Do., 18. Aug. 2016
um 13:14 Uhr:

> On Thu, Aug 18, 2016 at 12:28 PM, Benedikt Ritter <[hidden email]>
> wrote:
>
> > I always thought our SVN/CMS workflow is mandatory. Do you know projects
> > who use git for site publication already?
>
> According to Infra, it isn't mandatory. See
> https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/INFRA-12228. (This is regarding
> the Juneau Incubating project, but I have also seen it in AsterixDB.
> Besides, Creadur (Rat) is about to switch.
>

If it's possible we should investigate whether it makes stuff easier for us.


> Jochen
>
>
> --
> The next time you hear: "Don't reinvent the wheel!"
>
>
> http://www.keystonedevelopment.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2014/10/evolution-of-the-wheel-300x85.jpg
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Re: Move Site from CMS to Git

jochen-2
On Thu, Aug 18, 2016 at 1:23 PM, Benedikt Ritter <[hidden email]> wrote:

> If it's possible we should investigate whether it makes stuff easier for us.

The reason why I am driving this: The CMS makes me sick. Whatever I
intend to do on the site, it is in the way. That is the main reason,
why the Fileupload site hasn't been updated since the last release.

May be my personal problem, but I notice that others hesitate doing
changes on the site, too.

Jochen


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Re: Move Site from CMS to Git

sebb-2-2
Please note that CMS and Git are orthogonal.

CMS can be used with either SVN or Git (strictly speaking svnpubsub/gitpubsub)

On 18 August 2016 at 13:19, Jochen Wiedmann <[hidden email]> wrote:

> On Thu, Aug 18, 2016 at 1:23 PM, Benedikt Ritter <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
>> If it's possible we should investigate whether it makes stuff easier for us.
>
> The reason why I am driving this: The CMS makes me sick. Whatever I
> intend to do on the site, it is in the way. That is the main reason,
> why the Fileupload site hasn't been updated since the last release.
>
> May be my personal problem, but I notice that others hesitate doing
> changes on the site, too.
>
> Jochen
>
>
> --
> The next time you hear: "Don't reinvent the wheel!"
>
> http://www.keystonedevelopment.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2014/10/evolution-of-the-wheel-300x85.jpg
>
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Re: Move Site from CMS to Git

Benedikt Ritter-4
In reply to this post by jochen-2
Hello Jochen,

Jochen Wiedmann <[hidden email]> schrieb am Do., 18. Aug. 2016
um 14:19 Uhr:

> On Thu, Aug 18, 2016 at 1:23 PM, Benedikt Ritter <[hidden email]>
> wrote:
>
> > If it's possible we should investigate whether it makes stuff easier for
> us.
>
> The reason why I am driving this: The CMS makes me sick. Whatever I
> intend to do on the site, it is in the way. That is the main reason,
> why the Fileupload site hasn't been updated since the last release.
>

What problems do you run into? I usually just change the sources and run
mvn site-deploy to redeploy the site. I never had any problems with that.
But it git is even easier, why not?

Benedikt


>
> May be my personal problem, but I notice that others hesitate doing
> changes on the site, too.
>
> Jochen
>
>
> --
> The next time you hear: "Don't reinvent the wheel!"
>
>
> http://www.keystonedevelopment.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2014/10/evolution-of-the-wheel-300x85.jpg
>
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Re: Move Site from CMS to Git

jochen-2
In reply to this post by sebb-2-2
On Thu, Aug 18, 2016 at 2:44 PM, sebb <[hidden email]> wrote:
> Please note that CMS and Git are orthogonal.
>
> CMS can be used with either SVN or Git (strictly speaking svnpubsub/gitpubsub)

That may be true. However, it doesn't really match with the
discussions that I had with Infra. (Which where more along the lines
of "You wanna use buildbot? Okay, move to Git.)

Jochen


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Re: Move Site from CMS to Git

sebb-2-2
On 18 August 2016 at 13:49, Jochen Wiedmann <[hidden email]> wrote:
> On Thu, Aug 18, 2016 at 2:44 PM, sebb <[hidden email]> wrote:
>> Please note that CMS and Git are orthogonal.
>>
>> CMS can be used with either SVN or Git (strictly speaking svnpubsub/gitpubsub)
>
> That may be true. However, it doesn't really match with the
> discussions that I had with Infra. (Which where more along the lines
> of "You wanna use buildbot? Okay, move to Git.)

I don't understand that.
Buildbot is also used with svnpubsub.

I suspect that changing the way the site builds will be a big
upheaval, at least initially.
Before starting down that road I'd like to see proof that using Git
would be simpler/better.
[This is not because I am against Git per se]

> Jochen
>
>
> --
> The next time you hear: "Don't reinvent the wheel!"
>
> http://www.keystonedevelopment.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2014/10/evolution-of-the-wheel-300x85.jpg
>
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Re: Move Site from CMS to Git

jochen-2
On Thu, Aug 18, 2016 at 3:02 PM, sebb <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Buildbot is also used with svnpubsub.

Just guessing: The problem might be, that SVN doesn't allow a
technical user performing a Commit. At least, this has been a problem
in the past.

Jochen

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Re: Move Site from CMS to Git

sebb-2-2
On 18 August 2016 at 14:22, Jochen Wiedmann <[hidden email]> wrote:
> On Thu, Aug 18, 2016 at 3:02 PM, sebb <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
>> Buildbot is also used with svnpubsub.
>
> Just guessing: The problem might be, that SVN doesn't allow a
> technical user performing a Commit. At least, this has been a problem
> in the past.

Huh?

> Jochen
>
> --
> The next time you hear: "Don't reinvent the wheel!"
>
> http://www.keystonedevelopment.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2014/10/evolution-of-the-wheel-300x85.jpg
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Re: Move Site from CMS to Git

sebb-2-2
In reply to this post by sebb-2-2
On 18 August 2016 at 14:02, sebb <[hidden email]> wrote:

> On 18 August 2016 at 13:49, Jochen Wiedmann <[hidden email]> wrote:
>> On Thu, Aug 18, 2016 at 2:44 PM, sebb <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>> Please note that CMS and Git are orthogonal.
>>>
>>> CMS can be used with either SVN or Git (strictly speaking svnpubsub/gitpubsub)
>>
>> That may be true. However, it doesn't really match with the
>> discussions that I had with Infra. (Which where more along the lines
>> of "You wanna use buildbot? Okay, move to Git.)
>
> I don't understand that.
> Buildbot is also used with svnpubsub.
>
> I suspect that changing the way the site builds will be a big
> upheaval, at least initially.
> Before starting down that road I'd like to see proof that using Git
> would be simpler/better.
> [This is not because I am against Git per se]

Related to that I note that you have raised a JIRA to convert Creadur
to use Git/buildbot.

https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/INFRA-12231

I think Commons should wait to see how that turns out before
committing to any changes.

>> Jochen
>>
>>
>> --
>> The next time you hear: "Don't reinvent the wheel!"
>>
>> http://www.keystonedevelopment.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2014/10/evolution-of-the-wheel-300x85.jpg
>>
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Re: Move Site from CMS to Git

Stian Soiland-Reyes
In reply to this post by jochen-2
Commons is special in that we have many components within the same website,
but update them separately and generally only at release time.

With git you would always need to check out all of the commons site, e.g.
lots of javadoc for each of the components. We might have to fix the site
deploy so it then correctly updates the right subfolder there.

On the other side, adding lots of files is tremendously faster with git. :)

Or are you also proposing to move to a single commons-site project with
buildbot and then add folders there manually rather than with mvn
site:site-deploy?

That could significantly lower the barriers for GitHub contributions to
update the site and also make it easier to update outside a release. But it
would be a bit of work to move everything, and also harder to keep up to
date things like download pages and version numbers.

On 18 Aug 2016 8:03 a.m., "Jochen Wiedmann" <[hidden email]>
wrote:

>
> Hi,
>
> I'd like to have our site moved away from the CMS to Git. Because, if
> we have done that, we can also have a set of buildjobs created, that
> watch on commits, rebuild the site, and commit the updated site. Right
> now, I view the site as a nightmare.
>
> WDYT?
>
> Jochen
>
>
> --
> The next time you hear: "Don't reinvent the wheel!"
>
>
http://www.keystonedevelopment.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2014/10/evolution-of-the-wheel-300x85.jpg
>
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Re: Move Site from CMS to Git

jochen-2
On Thu, Sep 15, 2016 at 11:23 AM, Stian Soiland-Reyes <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Commons is special in that we have many components within the same website,
> but update them separately and generally only at release time.
>
> With git you would always need to check out all of the commons site, e.g.
> lots of javadoc for each of the components. We might have to fix the site
> deploy so it then correctly updates the right subfolder there.
>
> On the other side, adding lots of files is tremendously faster with git. :)
>
> Or are you also proposing to move to a single commons-site project with
> buildbot and then add folders there manually rather than with mvn
> site:site-deploy?

Certainly not. On the contrary, I'd like to simplify work for the components.

Jochen


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Re: Move Site from CMS to Git

Ralph Goers
I migrated Log4j to the CMS because Infra basically said it was the only supported way to publish an ASF web site.  Has that changed? Is there a new, documented way to use git for that?

Ralph

> On Sep 15, 2016, at 2:42 AM, Jochen Wiedmann <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> On Thu, Sep 15, 2016 at 11:23 AM, Stian Soiland-Reyes <[hidden email]> wrote:
>> Commons is special in that we have many components within the same website,
>> but update them separately and generally only at release time.
>>
>> With git you would always need to check out all of the commons site, e.g.
>> lots of javadoc for each of the components. We might have to fix the site
>> deploy so it then correctly updates the right subfolder there.
>>
>> On the other side, adding lots of files is tremendously faster with git. :)
>>
>> Or are you also proposing to move to a single commons-site project with
>> buildbot and then add folders there manually rather than with mvn
>> site:site-deploy?
>
> Certainly not. On the contrary, I'd like to simplify work for the components.
>
> Jochen
>
>
> --
> The next time you hear: "Don't reinvent the wheel!"
>
> http://www.keystonedevelopment.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2014/10/evolution-of-the-wheel-300x85.jpg
>
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Re: Move Site from CMS to Git

sebb-2-2
CMS uses SVN but is not the same thing.

I think there are 3 ways to publish a site:

svnpubsub - i.e. generate and upload site to the appropriate SVN tree
and it will automatically get published
This is what Commons uses currently

CMS + svnpubsub: This uses CMS to maintain the site; after editting
the site using CMS it is automatically built to a staging area which
can then be published.
This is what the www.apache.org site uses (though one can also
edit/publish manually).
It won't work for Commons because of the multiple sub-sites.

gitpubsub - AFAIK this is the same as svnpubsub but using Git

On 15 September 2016 at 20:21, Ralph Goers <[hidden email]> wrote:

> I migrated Log4j to the CMS because Infra basically said it was the only supported way to publish an ASF web site.  Has that changed? Is there a new, documented way to use git for that?
>
> Ralph
>
>> On Sep 15, 2016, at 2:42 AM, Jochen Wiedmann <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>
>> On Thu, Sep 15, 2016 at 11:23 AM, Stian Soiland-Reyes <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>> Commons is special in that we have many components within the same website,
>>> but update them separately and generally only at release time.
>>>
>>> With git you would always need to check out all of the commons site, e.g.
>>> lots of javadoc for each of the components. We might have to fix the site
>>> deploy so it then correctly updates the right subfolder there.
>>>
>>> On the other side, adding lots of files is tremendously faster with git. :)
>>>
>>> Or are you also proposing to move to a single commons-site project with
>>> buildbot and then add folders there manually rather than with mvn
>>> site:site-deploy?
>>
>> Certainly not. On the contrary, I'd like to simplify work for the components.
>>
>> Jochen
>>
>>
>> --
>> The next time you hear: "Don't reinvent the wheel!"
>>
>> http://www.keystonedevelopment.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2014/10/evolution-of-the-wheel-300x85.jpg
>>
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Re: Move Site from CMS to Git

jochen-2
In reply to this post by Ralph Goers
On Thu, Sep 15, 2016 at 9:21 PM, Ralph Goers <[hidden email]> wrote:
> I migrated Log4j to the CMS because Infra basically said it was the only supported way to publish an ASF web site.  Has that changed?

That's my understanding, yes. OTOH, I'm not Infra.

Jochen

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Re: Move Site from CMS to Git

Ralph Goers
In reply to this post by sebb-2-2
I don’t understand your comment about CMS + svnpubsub. The Logging project has multiple sub-sites and uses this approach.

Ralph

> On Sep 15, 2016, at 2:01 PM, sebb <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> CMS uses SVN but is not the same thing.
>
> I think there are 3 ways to publish a site:
>
> svnpubsub - i.e. generate and upload site to the appropriate SVN tree
> and it will automatically get published
> This is what Commons uses currently
>
> CMS + svnpubsub: This uses CMS to maintain the site; after editting
> the site using CMS it is automatically built to a staging area which
> can then be published.
> This is what the www.apache.org site uses (though one can also
> edit/publish manually).
> It won't work for Commons because of the multiple sub-sites.
>
> gitpubsub - AFAIK this is the same as svnpubsub but using Git
>
> On 15 September 2016 at 20:21, Ralph Goers <[hidden email]> wrote:
>> I migrated Log4j to the CMS because Infra basically said it was the only supported way to publish an ASF web site.  Has that changed? Is there a new, documented way to use git for that?
>>
>> Ralph
>>
>>> On Sep 15, 2016, at 2:42 AM, Jochen Wiedmann <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>>
>>> On Thu, Sep 15, 2016 at 11:23 AM, Stian Soiland-Reyes <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>>> Commons is special in that we have many components within the same website,
>>>> but update them separately and generally only at release time.
>>>>
>>>> With git you would always need to check out all of the commons site, e.g.
>>>> lots of javadoc for each of the components. We might have to fix the site
>>>> deploy so it then correctly updates the right subfolder there.
>>>>
>>>> On the other side, adding lots of files is tremendously faster with git. :)
>>>>
>>>> Or are you also proposing to move to a single commons-site project with
>>>> buildbot and then add folders there manually rather than with mvn
>>>> site:site-deploy?
>>>
>>> Certainly not. On the contrary, I'd like to simplify work for the components.
>>>
>>> Jochen
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> The next time you hear: "Don't reinvent the wheel!"
>>>
>>> http://www.keystonedevelopment.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2014/10/evolution-of-the-wheel-300x85.jpg
>>>
>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: [hidden email]
>>> For additional commands, e-mail: [hidden email]
>>>
>>>
>>
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Re: Move Site from CMS to Git

sebb-2-2
This is what I understood.
Or maybe it was that certain aspects of the CMS don't work on such sites.
It looks as though Commons parent is updateable via CMS but not the components.

On 19 September 2016 at 05:31, Ralph Goers <[hidden email]> wrote:

> I don’t understand your comment about CMS + svnpubsub. The Logging project has multiple sub-sites and uses this approach.
>
> Ralph
>
>> On Sep 15, 2016, at 2:01 PM, sebb <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>
>> CMS uses SVN but is not the same thing.
>>
>> I think there are 3 ways to publish a site:
>>
>> svnpubsub - i.e. generate and upload site to the appropriate SVN tree
>> and it will automatically get published
>> This is what Commons uses currently
>>
>> CMS + svnpubsub: This uses CMS to maintain the site; after editting
>> the site using CMS it is automatically built to a staging area which
>> can then be published.
>> This is what the www.apache.org site uses (though one can also
>> edit/publish manually).
>> It won't work for Commons because of the multiple sub-sites.
>>
>> gitpubsub - AFAIK this is the same as svnpubsub but using Git
>>
>> On 15 September 2016 at 20:21, Ralph Goers <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>> I migrated Log4j to the CMS because Infra basically said it was the only supported way to publish an ASF web site.  Has that changed? Is there a new, documented way to use git for that?
>>>
>>> Ralph
>>>
>>>> On Sep 15, 2016, at 2:42 AM, Jochen Wiedmann <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> On Thu, Sep 15, 2016 at 11:23 AM, Stian Soiland-Reyes <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>>>> Commons is special in that we have many components within the same website,
>>>>> but update them separately and generally only at release time.
>>>>>
>>>>> With git you would always need to check out all of the commons site, e.g.
>>>>> lots of javadoc for each of the components. We might have to fix the site
>>>>> deploy so it then correctly updates the right subfolder there.
>>>>>
>>>>> On the other side, adding lots of files is tremendously faster with git. :)
>>>>>
>>>>> Or are you also proposing to move to a single commons-site project with
>>>>> buildbot and then add folders there manually rather than with mvn
>>>>> site:site-deploy?
>>>>
>>>> Certainly not. On the contrary, I'd like to simplify work for the components.
>>>>
>>>> Jochen
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> The next time you hear: "Don't reinvent the wheel!"
>>>>
>>>> http://www.keystonedevelopment.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2014/10/evolution-of-the-wheel-300x85.jpg
>>>>
>>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
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>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
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