Updating the logo

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Updating the logo

Mark Thomas
Hi all,

I've looked but can't find a previous vote on this.

The current logo is:
https://apache.org/foundation/press/kit/ApacheFoundation_StyleGuide.pdf

The options for the new logo are:

https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/COMMONSSITE-86

Of those, commons_logo.small.png is not consistent with the style guide
(the feather is rotated).

I can't see a difference (apart from size) between commons-logo_new.svg
and commons-logo_new4.svg. Am I missing something?

My intention is, therefore, to put commons-logo_new[1-4].svg onto a wiki
page so they can be viewed side-by-side and then to start a VOTE. I'll
probably do that next week some time to give time for any discussion
required before the vote starts.

Mark

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Re: Updating the logo

sebb-2-2
On Fri, 6 Sep 2019 at 15:53, Mark Thomas <[hidden email]> wrote:

>
> Hi all,
>
> I've looked but can't find a previous vote on this.
>
> The current logo is:
> https://apache.org/foundation/press/kit/ApacheFoundation_StyleGuide.pdf
>
> The options for the new logo are:
>
> https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/COMMONSSITE-86
>
> Of those, commons_logo.small.png is not consistent with the style guide
> (the feather is rotated).
>
> I can't see a difference (apart from size) between commons-logo_new.svg
> and commons-logo_new4.svg. Am I missing something?

Looks like the former uses a seriffed font. The latter does not.

> My intention is, therefore, to put commons-logo_new[1-4].svg onto a wiki
> page so they can be viewed side-by-side and then to start a VOTE. I'll
> probably do that next week some time to give time for any discussion
> required before the vote starts.
>
> Mark
>
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Re: Updating the logo

Gilles Sadowski-2
In reply to this post by Mark Thomas
Hello.

Le ven. 6 sept. 2019 à 16:53, Mark Thomas <[hidden email]> a écrit :

>
> Hi all,
>
> I've looked but can't find a previous vote on this.
>
> The current logo is:
> https://apache.org/foundation/press/kit/ApacheFoundation_StyleGuide.pdf
>
> The options for the new logo are:
>
> https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/COMMONSSITE-86
>
> Of those, commons_logo.small.png is not consistent with the style guide
> (the feather is rotated).

Is there anything in the "Identity Style Guide" that forbids a project
to use the feather is some other position in its own logo?
This is unrelated to the requirement to not distort the foundation's logo.

Several projects[1] use variations of the feather (including slope, cut,
rotation, stylized, old-fashion, ...).

Regards,
Gilles

[1] https://www.apache.org/logos/

>
> I can't see a difference (apart from size) between commons-logo_new.svg
> and commons-logo_new4.svg. Am I missing something?
>
> My intention is, therefore, to put commons-logo_new[1-4].svg onto a wiki
> page so they can be viewed side-by-side and then to start a VOTE. I'll
> probably do that next week some time to give time for any discussion
> required before the vote starts.
>
> Mark
>

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Re: Updating the logo

sebb-2-2
On Fri, 6 Sep 2019 at 22:51, Gilles Sadowski <[hidden email]> wrote:

>
> Hello.
>
> Le ven. 6 sept. 2019 à 16:53, Mark Thomas <[hidden email]> a écrit :
> >
> > Hi all,
> >
> > I've looked but can't find a previous vote on this.
> >
> > The current logo is:
> > https://apache.org/foundation/press/kit/ApacheFoundation_StyleGuide.pdf
> >
> > The options for the new logo are:
> >
> > https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/COMMONSSITE-86
> >
> > Of those, commons_logo.small.png is not consistent with the style guide
> > (the feather is rotated).
>
> Is there anything in the "Identity Style Guide" that forbids a project
> to use the feather is some other position in its own logo?

I was under the impression that only the standard orientation is
allowed, but cannot find the docn just now.

> This is unrelated to the requirement to not distort the foundation's logo.
>
> Several projects[1] use variations of the feather (including slope, cut,
> rotation, stylized, old-fashion, ...).

I don't think you can use other projects as a guide.
At least one of them is an old logo using the previous version of the feather.
And it's not unknown for projects to copy bad practice - or not think
to find out about the policy.

I suggest you ask on the press@ list.

> Regards,
> Gilles
>
> [1] https://www.apache.org/logos/
>
> >
> > I can't see a difference (apart from size) between commons-logo_new.svg
> > and commons-logo_new4.svg. Am I missing something?
> >
> > My intention is, therefore, to put commons-logo_new[1-4].svg onto a wiki
> > page so they can be viewed side-by-side and then to start a VOTE. I'll
> > probably do that next week some time to give time for any discussion
> > required before the vote starts.
> >
> > Mark
> >
>
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Re: Updating the logo

Gilles Sadowski-2
In reply to this post by Mark Thomas
2019-09-06 16:53 UTC+02:00, Mark Thomas <[hidden email]>:
> Hi all,
>
> I've looked but can't find a previous vote on this.

Right; we stopped short of voting because the discussion
didn't elicit much interest:
   https://markmail.org/message/bgbzusjpfulou4pq

I thus went on making logos for the new components:
 https://commons.apache.org/rng
 https://commons.apache.org/statistics
 https://commons.apache.org/numbers
 https://commons.apache.org/geometry/

Regards,
Gilles

>
> The current logo is:
> https://apache.org/foundation/press/kit/ApacheFoundation_StyleGuide.pdf
>
> The options for the new logo are:
>
> https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/COMMONSSITE-86
>
> Of those, commons_logo.small.png is not consistent with the style guide
> (the feather is rotated).
>
> I can't see a difference (apart from size) between commons-logo_new.svg
> and commons-logo_new4.svg. Am I missing something?
>
> My intention is, therefore, to put commons-logo_new[1-4].svg onto a wiki
> page so they can be viewed side-by-side and then to start a VOTE. I'll
> probably do that next week some time to give time for any discussion
> required before the vote starts.
>
> Mark

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Re: Updating the logo

Gilles Sadowski-2
In reply to this post by Mark Thomas
2019-09-06 16:53 UTC+02:00, Mark Thomas <[hidden email]>:

> Hi all,
>
> I've looked but can't find a previous vote on this.
>
> The current logo is:
> https://apache.org/foundation/press/kit/ApacheFoundation_StyleGuide.pdf
>
> The options for the new logo are:
>
> https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/COMMONSSITE-86
>
> Of those, commons_logo.small.png is not consistent with the style guide
> (the feather is rotated).
>
> I can't see a difference (apart from size) between commons-logo_new.svg
> and commons-logo_new4.svg. Am I missing something?
>
> My intention is, therefore, to put commons-logo_new[1-4].svg onto a wiki
> page so they can be viewed side-by-side and then to start a VOTE.

All proposals currently on that JIRA page are ruled out (see the URL).

Gilles

> I'll
> probably do that next week some time to give time for any discussion
> required before the vote starts.
>
> Mark
>

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Re: Updating the logo

garydgregory
In reply to this post by Gilles Sadowski-2
On Fri, Sep 6, 2019 at 9:19 PM Gilles Sadowski <[hidden email]> wrote:

> 2019-09-06 16:53 UTC+02:00, Mark Thomas <[hidden email]>:
> > Hi all,
> >
> > I've looked but can't find a previous vote on this.
>
> Right; we stopped short of voting because the discussion
> didn't elicit much interest:
>    https://markmail.org/message/bgbzusjpfulou4pq
>
> I thus went on making logos for the new components:
>  https://commons.apache.org/rng
>  https://commons.apache.org/statistics
>  https://commons.apache.org/numbers
>  https://commons.apache.org/geometry/
>
> I love all these logos, except geometry ;-)

G

Regards,

> Gilles
>
> >
> > The current logo is:
> > https://apache.org/foundation/press/kit/ApacheFoundation_StyleGuide.pdf
> >
> > The options for the new logo are:
> >
> > https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/COMMONSSITE-86
> >
> > Of those, commons_logo.small.png is not consistent with the style guide
> > (the feather is rotated).
> >
> > I can't see a difference (apart from size) between commons-logo_new.svg
> > and commons-logo_new4.svg. Am I missing something?
> >
> > My intention is, therefore, to put commons-logo_new[1-4].svg onto a wiki
> > page so they can be viewed side-by-side and then to start a VOTE. I'll
> > probably do that next week some time to give time for any discussion
> > required before the vote starts.
> >
> > Mark
>
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Re: Updating the logo

sebb-2-2
In reply to this post by Gilles Sadowski-2
On Sat, 7 Sep 2019 at 02:25, Gilles Sadowski <[hidden email]> wrote:

>
> 2019-09-06 16:53 UTC+02:00, Mark Thomas <[hidden email]>:
> > Hi all,
> >
> > I've looked but can't find a previous vote on this.
> >
> > The current logo is:
> > https://apache.org/foundation/press/kit/ApacheFoundation_StyleGuide.pdf
> >
> > The options for the new logo are:
> >
> > https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/COMMONSSITE-86
> >
> > Of those, commons_logo.small.png is not consistent with the style guide
> > (the feather is rotated).
> >
> > I can't see a difference (apart from size) between commons-logo_new.svg
> > and commons-logo_new4.svg. Am I missing something?
> >
> > My intention is, therefore, to put commons-logo_new[1-4].svg onto a wiki
> > page so they can be viewed side-by-side and then to start a VOTE.
>
> All proposals currently on that JIRA page are ruled out (see the URL).

What URL and why are they disqualified?

> Gilles
>
> > I'll
> > probably do that next week some time to give time for any discussion
> > required before the vote starts.
> >
> > Mark
> >
>
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Re: Updating the logo

Mark Thomas
In reply to this post by Gilles Sadowski-2
On September 7, 2019 1:25:41 AM UTC, Gilles Sadowski <[hidden email]> wrote:

>2019-09-06 16:53 UTC+02:00, Mark Thomas <[hidden email]>:
>> Hi all,
>>
>> I've looked but can't find a previous vote on this.
>>
>> The current logo is:
>>
>https://apache.org/foundation/press/kit/ApacheFoundation_StyleGuide.pdf
>>
>> The options for the new logo are:
>>
>> https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/COMMONSSITE-86
>>
>> Of those, commons_logo.small.png is not consistent with the style
>guide
>> (the feather is rotated).
>>
>> I can't see a difference (apart from size) between
>commons-logo_new.svg
>> and commons-logo_new4.svg. Am I missing something?
>>
>> My intention is, therefore, to put commons-logo_new[1-4].svg onto a
>wiki
>> page so they can be viewed side-by-side and then to start a VOTE.
>
>All proposals currently on that JIRA page are ruled out (see the URL).

On what basis? 1-4 looked OK to me.

Mark

>
>Gilles
>
>> I'll
>> probably do that next week some time to give time for any discussion
>> required before the vote starts.
>>
>> Mark
>>
>
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Re: Updating the logo

Gilles Sadowski-2
In reply to this post by sebb-2-2
Hi.

2019-09-07 11:51 UTC+02:00, sebb <[hidden email]>:

> On Sat, 7 Sep 2019 at 02:25, Gilles Sadowski <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>
>> 2019-09-06 16:53 UTC+02:00, Mark Thomas <[hidden email]>:
>> > Hi all,
>> >
>> > I've looked but can't find a previous vote on this.
>> >
>> > The current logo is:
>> > https://apache.org/foundation/press/kit/ApacheFoundation_StyleGuide.pdf
>> >
>> > The options for the new logo are:
>> >
>> > https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/COMMONSSITE-86
>> >
>> > Of those, commons_logo.small.png is not consistent with the style guide
>> > (the feather is rotated).
>> >
>> > I can't see a difference (apart from size) between commons-logo_new.svg
>> > and commons-logo_new4.svg. Am I missing something?
>> >
>> > My intention is, therefore, to put commons-logo_new[1-4].svg onto a
>> > wiki
>> > page so they can be viewed side-by-side and then to start a VOTE.
>>
>> All proposals currently on that JIRA page are ruled out (see the URL).
>
> What URL and why are they disqualified?
>

http vs https

>> [...]

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Re: Updating the logo

Gilles Sadowski-2
In reply to this post by Mark Thomas
2019-09-07 16:20 UTC+02:00, Mark Thomas <[hidden email]>:

> On September 7, 2019 1:25:41 AM UTC, Gilles Sadowski <[hidden email]>
> wrote:
>>2019-09-06 16:53 UTC+02:00, Mark Thomas <[hidden email]>:
>>> Hi all,
>>>
>>> I've looked but can't find a previous vote on this.
>>>
>>> The current logo is:
>>>
>>https://apache.org/foundation/press/kit/ApacheFoundation_StyleGuide.pdf
>>>
>>> The options for the new logo are:
>>>
>>> https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/COMMONSSITE-86
>>>
>>> Of those, commons_logo.small.png is not consistent with the style
>>guide
>>> (the feather is rotated).
>>>
>>> I can't see a difference (apart from size) between
>>commons-logo_new.svg
>>> and commons-logo_new4.svg. Am I missing something?
>>>
>>> My intention is, therefore, to put commons-logo_new[1-4].svg onto a
>>wiki
>>> page so they can be viewed side-by-side and then to start a VOTE.
>>
>>All proposals currently on that JIRA page are ruled out (see the URL).
>
> On what basis? 1-4 looked OK to me.
>

Apart from the deprecated (non-secure) URL, they also diverge,
from a graphical POV, from the foundation's visual identity.
Anyways, I don't think it's worth entering a discussion on matters
of taste, especially now that we have been offered help from
"Central Services".
Any objection to accepting Sally's proposal?

Thanks,
Gilles

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Re: Updating the logo

garydgregory
On Sat, Sep 7, 2019, 11:36 Gilles Sadowski <[hidden email]> wrote:

> 2019-09-07 16:20 UTC+02:00, Mark Thomas <[hidden email]>:
> > On September 7, 2019 1:25:41 AM UTC, Gilles Sadowski <
> [hidden email]>
> > wrote:
> >>2019-09-06 16:53 UTC+02:00, Mark Thomas <[hidden email]>:
> >>> Hi all,
> >>>
> >>> I've looked but can't find a previous vote on this.
> >>>
> >>> The current logo is:
> >>>
> >>https://apache.org/foundation/press/kit/ApacheFoundation_StyleGuide.pdf
> >>>
> >>> The options for the new logo are:
> >>>
> >>> https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/COMMONSSITE-86
> >>>
> >>> Of those, commons_logo.small.png is not consistent with the style
> >>guide
> >>> (the feather is rotated).
> >>>
> >>> I can't see a difference (apart from size) between
> >>commons-logo_new.svg
> >>> and commons-logo_new4.svg. Am I missing something?
> >>>
> >>> My intention is, therefore, to put commons-logo_new[1-4].svg onto a
> >>wiki
> >>> page so they can be viewed side-by-side and then to start a VOTE.
> >>
> >>All proposals currently on that JIRA page are ruled out (see the URL).
> >
> > On what basis? 1-4 looked OK to me.
> >
>
> Apart from the deprecated (non-secure) URL, they also diverge,
> from a graphical POV, from the foundation's visual identity.
> Anyways, I don't think it's worth entering a discussion on matters
> of taste, especially now that we have been offered help from
> "Central Services".
> Any objection to accepting Sally's proposal?
>

I would gratefully accept the help :-)

Gary


> Thanks,
> Gilles
>
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Re: Updating the logo

sebb-2-2
In reply to this post by Gilles Sadowski-2
On Sat, 7 Sep 2019 at 16:25, Gilles Sadowski <[hidden email]> wrote:

>
> Hi.
>
> 2019-09-07 11:51 UTC+02:00, sebb <[hidden email]>:
> > On Sat, 7 Sep 2019 at 02:25, Gilles Sadowski <[hidden email]> wrote:
> >>
> >> 2019-09-06 16:53 UTC+02:00, Mark Thomas <[hidden email]>:
> >> > Hi all,
> >> >
> >> > I've looked but can't find a previous vote on this.
> >> >
> >> > The current logo is:
> >> > https://apache.org/foundation/press/kit/ApacheFoundation_StyleGuide.pdf
> >> >
> >> > The options for the new logo are:
> >> >
> >> > https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/COMMONSSITE-86
> >> >
> >> > Of those, commons_logo.small.png is not consistent with the style guide
> >> > (the feather is rotated).
> >> >
> >> > I can't see a difference (apart from size) between commons-logo_new.svg
> >> > and commons-logo_new4.svg. Am I missing something?
> >> >
> >> > My intention is, therefore, to put commons-logo_new[1-4].svg onto a
> >> > wiki
> >> > page so they can be viewed side-by-side and then to start a VOTE.
> >>
> >> All proposals currently on that JIRA page are ruled out (see the URL).
> >
> > What URL and why are they disqualified?
> >
>
> http vs https

Whilst http may be deprecated, AFAIK it is not forbidden.
Besides, it should be trivial to change it.

> >> [...]
>
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Re: Updating the logo

Gilles Sadowski-2
2019-09-07 18:07 UTC+02:00, sebb <[hidden email]>:

> On Sat, 7 Sep 2019 at 16:25, Gilles Sadowski <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>
>> Hi.
>>
>> 2019-09-07 11:51 UTC+02:00, sebb <[hidden email]>:
>> > On Sat, 7 Sep 2019 at 02:25, Gilles Sadowski <[hidden email]>
>> > wrote:
>> >>
>> >> 2019-09-06 16:53 UTC+02:00, Mark Thomas <[hidden email]>:
>> >> > Hi all,
>> >> >
>> >> > I've looked but can't find a previous vote on this.
>> >> >
>> >> > The current logo is:
>> >> > https://apache.org/foundation/press/kit/ApacheFoundation_StyleGuide.pdf
>> >> >
>> >> > The options for the new logo are:
>> >> >
>> >> > https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/COMMONSSITE-86
>> >> >
>> >> > Of those, commons_logo.small.png is not consistent with the style
>> >> > guide
>> >> > (the feather is rotated).
>> >> >
>> >> > I can't see a difference (apart from size) between
>> >> > commons-logo_new.svg
>> >> > and commons-logo_new4.svg. Am I missing something?
>> >> >
>> >> > My intention is, therefore, to put commons-logo_new[1-4].svg onto a
>> >> > wiki
>> >> > page so they can be viewed side-by-side and then to start a VOTE.
>> >>
>> >> All proposals currently on that JIRA page are ruled out (see the URL).
>> >
>> > What URL and why are they disqualified?
>> >
>>
>> http vs https
>
> Whilst http may be deprecated, AFAIK it is not forbidden.

Creating a new logo for Commons that would contain
an outdated element does not make much sense.

> Besides, it should be trivial to change it.

Sure.  But as they stand, those images contain an objectively
undesirable feature.
[IIRC, you corrected many such uses of "http://".]


Gilles

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Re: Updating the logo

sebb-2-2
On Sat, 7 Sep 2019 at 17:34, Gilles Sadowski <[hidden email]> wrote:

>
> 2019-09-07 18:07 UTC+02:00, sebb <[hidden email]>:
> > On Sat, 7 Sep 2019 at 16:25, Gilles Sadowski <[hidden email]> wrote:
> >>
> >> Hi.
> >>
> >> 2019-09-07 11:51 UTC+02:00, sebb <[hidden email]>:
> >> > On Sat, 7 Sep 2019 at 02:25, Gilles Sadowski <[hidden email]>
> >> > wrote:
> >> >>
> >> >> 2019-09-06 16:53 UTC+02:00, Mark Thomas <[hidden email]>:
> >> >> > Hi all,
> >> >> >
> >> >> > I've looked but can't find a previous vote on this.
> >> >> >
> >> >> > The current logo is:
> >> >> > https://apache.org/foundation/press/kit/ApacheFoundation_StyleGuide.pdf
> >> >> >
> >> >> > The options for the new logo are:
> >> >> >
> >> >> > https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/COMMONSSITE-86
> >> >> >
> >> >> > Of those, commons_logo.small.png is not consistent with the style
> >> >> > guide
> >> >> > (the feather is rotated).
> >> >> >
> >> >> > I can't see a difference (apart from size) between
> >> >> > commons-logo_new.svg
> >> >> > and commons-logo_new4.svg. Am I missing something?
> >> >> >
> >> >> > My intention is, therefore, to put commons-logo_new[1-4].svg onto a
> >> >> > wiki
> >> >> > page so they can be viewed side-by-side and then to start a VOTE.
> >> >>
> >> >> All proposals currently on that JIRA page are ruled out (see the URL).
> >> >
> >> > What URL and why are they disqualified?
> >> >
> >>
> >> http vs https
> >
> > Whilst http may be deprecated, AFAIK it is not forbidden.
>
> Creating a new logo for Commons that would contain
> an outdated element does not make much sense.
>
> > Besides, it should be trivial to change it.
>
> Sure.  But as they stand, those images contain an objectively
> undesirable feature.

Not everyone agrees, please read:
https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/INFRA-18923?focusedCommentId=16914202&page=com.atlassian.jira.plugin.system.issuetabpanels%3Acomment-tabpanel#comment-16914202

You wrote 'ruled out', which I took to mean 'disallowed'.

> [IIRC, you corrected many such uses of "http://".]

As I recall, I changed the links to KEYS, hashes and sigs -- which
MUST use https.
That is quite different from using https for websites.

>
> Gilles
>
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Re: Updating the logo

sebb-2-2
In reply to this post by garydgregory
Agreed.

I think we should point out that we already have some suggestions for
the main logo in https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/COMMONSSITE-86.
If some or all of those are acceptable, then that will save some work.

I don't think we necessarily need to incorporate the feather in the
component logos, but we should ask about that.

On Sat, 7 Sep 2019 at 16:58, Gary Gregory <[hidden email]> wrote:

>
> On Sat, Sep 7, 2019, 11:36 Gilles Sadowski <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> > 2019-09-07 16:20 UTC+02:00, Mark Thomas <[hidden email]>:
> > > On September 7, 2019 1:25:41 AM UTC, Gilles Sadowski <
> > [hidden email]>
> > > wrote:
> > >>2019-09-06 16:53 UTC+02:00, Mark Thomas <[hidden email]>:
> > >>> Hi all,
> > >>>
> > >>> I've looked but can't find a previous vote on this.
> > >>>
> > >>> The current logo is:
> > >>>
> > >>https://apache.org/foundation/press/kit/ApacheFoundation_StyleGuide.pdf
> > >>>
> > >>> The options for the new logo are:
> > >>>
> > >>> https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/COMMONSSITE-86
> > >>>
> > >>> Of those, commons_logo.small.png is not consistent with the style
> > >>guide
> > >>> (the feather is rotated).
> > >>>
> > >>> I can't see a difference (apart from size) between
> > >>commons-logo_new.svg
> > >>> and commons-logo_new4.svg. Am I missing something?
> > >>>
> > >>> My intention is, therefore, to put commons-logo_new[1-4].svg onto a
> > >>wiki
> > >>> page so they can be viewed side-by-side and then to start a VOTE.
> > >>
> > >>All proposals currently on that JIRA page are ruled out (see the URL).
> > >
> > > On what basis? 1-4 looked OK to me.
> > >
> >
> > Apart from the deprecated (non-secure) URL, they also diverge,
> > from a graphical POV, from the foundation's visual identity.
> > Anyways, I don't think it's worth entering a discussion on matters
> > of taste, especially now that we have been offered help from
> > "Central Services".
> > Any objection to accepting Sally's proposal?
> >
>
> I would gratefully accept the help :-)
>
> Gary
>
>
> > Thanks,
> > Gilles
> >
> > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> > To unsubscribe, e-mail: [hidden email]
> > For additional commands, e-mail: [hidden email]
> >
> >

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Re: Updating the logo

Gilles Sadowski-2
In reply to this post by sebb-2-2
2019-09-07 18:56 UTC+02:00, sebb <[hidden email]>:

> On Sat, 7 Sep 2019 at 17:34, Gilles Sadowski <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>
>> 2019-09-07 18:07 UTC+02:00, sebb <[hidden email]>:
>> > On Sat, 7 Sep 2019 at 16:25, Gilles Sadowski <[hidden email]>
>> > wrote:
>> >>
>> >> Hi.
>> >>
>> >> 2019-09-07 11:51 UTC+02:00, sebb <[hidden email]>:
>> >> > On Sat, 7 Sep 2019 at 02:25, Gilles Sadowski <[hidden email]>
>> >> > wrote:
>> >> >>
>> >> >> 2019-09-06 16:53 UTC+02:00, Mark Thomas <[hidden email]>:
>> >> >> > Hi all,
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> > I've looked but can't find a previous vote on this.
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> > The current logo is:
>> >> >> > https://apache.org/foundation/press/kit/ApacheFoundation_StyleGuide.pdf
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> > The options for the new logo are:
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> > https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/COMMONSSITE-86
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> > Of those, commons_logo.small.png is not consistent with the style
>> >> >> > guide
>> >> >> > (the feather is rotated).
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> > I can't see a difference (apart from size) between
>> >> >> > commons-logo_new.svg
>> >> >> > and commons-logo_new4.svg. Am I missing something?
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> > My intention is, therefore, to put commons-logo_new[1-4].svg onto
>> >> >> > a
>> >> >> > wiki
>> >> >> > page so they can be viewed side-by-side and then to start a VOTE.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> All proposals currently on that JIRA page are ruled out (see the
>> >> >> URL).
>> >> >
>> >> > What URL and why are they disqualified?
>> >> >
>> >>
>> >> http vs https
>> >
>> > Whilst http may be deprecated, AFAIK it is not forbidden.
>>
>> Creating a new logo for Commons that would contain
>> an outdated element does not make much sense.
>>
>> > Besides, it should be trivial to change it.
>>
>> Sure.  But as they stand, those images contain an objectively
>> undesirable feature.
>
> Not everyone agrees, please read:
> https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/INFRA-18923?focusedCommentId=16914202&page=com.atlassian.jira.plugin.system.issuetabpanels%3Acomment-tabpanel#comment-16914202
>
> You wrote 'ruled out', which I took to mean 'disallowed'.
>
>> [IIRC, you corrected many such uses of "http://".]
>
> As I recall, I changed the links to KEYS, hashes and sigs -- which
> MUST use https.
> That is quite different from using https for websites.

Is it better to have the feather not tilted?
Is it better to advertise "https" rather than "http"?

This was just another remark about how the logos which we
were supposed to vote on can (should, IMO) be improved
(on top of the foundation's preferences about the feather to
be kept untouched).

[This discussion is quite pointless since we are going to delegate
that work.]

Gilles

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Re: Updating the logo

Gilles Sadowski-2
In reply to this post by sebb-2-2
2019-09-07 19:11 UTC+02:00, sebb <[hidden email]>:
> Agreed.
>
> I think we should point out that we already have some suggestions for
> the main logo in https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/COMMONSSITE-86.
> If some or all of those are acceptable, then that will save some work.
>
> I don't think we necessarily need to incorporate the feather in the
> component logos, but we should ask about that.

If not for the feather, what do we have to identify "Commons"
with Apache?

IMO, the main requirement should be that the logo for Commons
can be easily combined to create logos for the various components.

Gilles

>
> On Sat, 7 Sep 2019 at 16:58, Gary Gregory <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>
>> On Sat, Sep 7, 2019, 11:36 Gilles Sadowski <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>
>> > 2019-09-07 16:20 UTC+02:00, Mark Thomas <[hidden email]>:
>> > > On September 7, 2019 1:25:41 AM UTC, Gilles Sadowski <
>> > [hidden email]>
>> > > wrote:
>> > >>2019-09-06 16:53 UTC+02:00, Mark Thomas <[hidden email]>:
>> > >>> Hi all,
>> > >>>
>> > >>> I've looked but can't find a previous vote on this.
>> > >>>
>> > >>> The current logo is:
>> > >>>
>> > >>https://apache.org/foundation/press/kit/ApacheFoundation_StyleGuide.pdf
>> > >>>
>> > >>> The options for the new logo are:
>> > >>>
>> > >>> https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/COMMONSSITE-86
>> > >>>
>> > >>> Of those, commons_logo.small.png is not consistent with the style
>> > >>guide
>> > >>> (the feather is rotated).
>> > >>>
>> > >>> I can't see a difference (apart from size) between
>> > >>commons-logo_new.svg
>> > >>> and commons-logo_new4.svg. Am I missing something?
>> > >>>
>> > >>> My intention is, therefore, to put commons-logo_new[1-4].svg onto a
>> > >>wiki
>> > >>> page so they can be viewed side-by-side and then to start a VOTE.
>> > >>
>> > >>All proposals currently on that JIRA page are ruled out (see the
>> > >> URL).
>> > >
>> > > On what basis? 1-4 looked OK to me.
>> > >
>> >
>> > Apart from the deprecated (non-secure) URL, they also diverge,
>> > from a graphical POV, from the foundation's visual identity.
>> > Anyways, I don't think it's worth entering a discussion on matters
>> > of taste, especially now that we have been offered help from
>> > "Central Services".
>> > Any objection to accepting Sally's proposal?
>> >
>>
>> I would gratefully accept the help :-)
>>
>> Gary
>>
>>
>> > Thanks,
>> > Gilles
>> >

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Re: Updating the logo

sebb-2-2
On Sat, 7 Sep 2019 at 18:28, Gilles Sadowski <[hidden email]> wrote:

>
> 2019-09-07 19:11 UTC+02:00, sebb <[hidden email]>:
> > Agreed.
> >
> > I think we should point out that we already have some suggestions for
> > the main logo in https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/COMMONSSITE-86.
> > If some or all of those are acceptable, then that will save some work.
> >
> > I don't think we necessarily need to incorporate the feather in the
> > component logos, but we should ask about that.
>
> If not for the feather, what do we have to identify "Commons"
> with Apache?

The current page layout has two logos:

Commons on the left, with the feather.
(This needs to be replaced, as it is ancient)
It clearly associates Commons with Apache.

The component logo is on the right.
Many of these don't have feathers, but are they used stand-alone?

> IMO, the main requirement should be that the logo for Commons
> can be easily combined to create logos for the various components.

Perhaps, but that might make the logo rather busy.

If the logos are to be used on the website only, then I see no need to
combine them.

> Gilles
>
> >
> > On Sat, 7 Sep 2019 at 16:58, Gary Gregory <[hidden email]> wrote:
> >>
> >> On Sat, Sep 7, 2019, 11:36 Gilles Sadowski <[hidden email]> wrote:
> >>
> >> > 2019-09-07 16:20 UTC+02:00, Mark Thomas <[hidden email]>:
> >> > > On September 7, 2019 1:25:41 AM UTC, Gilles Sadowski <
> >> > [hidden email]>
> >> > > wrote:
> >> > >>2019-09-06 16:53 UTC+02:00, Mark Thomas <[hidden email]>:
> >> > >>> Hi all,
> >> > >>>
> >> > >>> I've looked but can't find a previous vote on this.
> >> > >>>
> >> > >>> The current logo is:
> >> > >>>
> >> > >>https://apache.org/foundation/press/kit/ApacheFoundation_StyleGuide.pdf
> >> > >>>
> >> > >>> The options for the new logo are:
> >> > >>>
> >> > >>> https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/COMMONSSITE-86
> >> > >>>
> >> > >>> Of those, commons_logo.small.png is not consistent with the style
> >> > >>guide
> >> > >>> (the feather is rotated).
> >> > >>>
> >> > >>> I can't see a difference (apart from size) between
> >> > >>commons-logo_new.svg
> >> > >>> and commons-logo_new4.svg. Am I missing something?
> >> > >>>
> >> > >>> My intention is, therefore, to put commons-logo_new[1-4].svg onto a
> >> > >>wiki
> >> > >>> page so they can be viewed side-by-side and then to start a VOTE.
> >> > >>
> >> > >>All proposals currently on that JIRA page are ruled out (see the
> >> > >> URL).
> >> > >
> >> > > On what basis? 1-4 looked OK to me.
> >> > >
> >> >
> >> > Apart from the deprecated (non-secure) URL, they also diverge,
> >> > from a graphical POV, from the foundation's visual identity.
> >> > Anyways, I don't think it's worth entering a discussion on matters
> >> > of taste, especially now that we have been offered help from
> >> > "Central Services".
> >> > Any objection to accepting Sally's proposal?
> >> >
> >>
> >> I would gratefully accept the help :-)
> >>
> >> Gary
> >>
> >>
> >> > Thanks,
> >> > Gilles
> >> >
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: [hidden email]
> For additional commands, e-mail: [hidden email]
>

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Re: Updating the logo

Gilles Sadowski-2
Hi.

Le sam. 7 sept. 2019 à 19:47, sebb <[hidden email]> a écrit :

>
> On Sat, 7 Sep 2019 at 18:28, Gilles Sadowski <[hidden email]> wrote:
> >
> > 2019-09-07 19:11 UTC+02:00, sebb <[hidden email]>:
> > > Agreed.
> > >
> > > I think we should point out that we already have some suggestions for
> > > the main logo in https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/COMMONSSITE-86.
> > > If some or all of those are acceptable, then that will save some work.
> > >
> > > I don't think we necessarily need to incorporate the feather in the
> > > component logos, but we should ask about that.
> >
> > If not for the feather, what do we have to identify "Commons"
> > with Apache?
>
> The current page layout has two logos:
>
> Commons on the left, with the feather.
> (This needs to be replaced, as it is ancient)

We seem to differ in what a logo is/should be.  IMO, on
that page, the "logo" is the feather.  The combination with
a URL and a name makes a sort of "header" (and it is used
as such on the web page).

Side-note:
I was wary of endless discussions, so I based my version of
the new logo on the foundation's new graphics for the feather
but without changing the main idea of the logo, i.e. I left
Commons's feather in the same position as on that page.

> It clearly associates Commons with Apache.

Well, if according to the new "visual indentity" rules, we must
keep the feather in the same position, that will be Apache's
logo, not Commons'.

> The component logo is on the right.
> Many of these don't have feathers, but are they used stand-alone?

I dont understand what you mean by "standalone".
All the components's logos are a combination of the text "Commons"
and something specific to the component (most often just its "base"
name).
What I suggest is basically the same: a combination of the
"Commons" logo (to be provided by Sally's team) and something
each component will have to come up with.

If not for that, what would be a component's logo?
Just the text ("rng", "math", "lang", ...) is fairly boring (and it is *not*
a logo, per the definition I use).

> > IMO, the main requirement should be that the logo for Commons
> > can be easily combined to create logos for the various components.
>
> Perhaps, but that might make the logo rather busy.

Not if we have a good (TM) logo.
[Conversely, if it looks crowded, that's a sure indication that the logo
is not good.]

>
> If the logos are to be used on the website only, then I see no need to
> combine them.

See the visual identity document which Mark provided, for all kinds
of uses.  A good logo must look fine in all these situations.  [And whether
we'll actually ever want to print it on a T-shirt is irrelevant to its quality.]

Gilles

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