[VFS] How to use operations

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[VFS] How to use operations

Frank van der Kleij

Hi all,

I'm toying with my own VFS operations but I can't quite figure out how to work with them.

I
don't see how a client of the VFS framework should use the operations;
other than when the client has prior knowledge of the operations that
exist.

I wrote a beanshell script that rewrites the basic
beanshell interpreter file manipulations (cd, pwd, cp, mv etc) to VFS
manipulations. It works  great and  I can use my custom provider (for
Documentum) without any problem within the beanshell interpreter. When
I tried to add support for operations I found that it is difficult to
make  it generic though.

I added some operations to my provider
just to try; when I list the available operations I get a list of
Classes. As a user it is quite hard to interpret this. I could try to
use Reflection, but a user readable description of what the operation
seems far away.

In my view the operations only become
interesting when they are usable by a generic VFS client. If the client
is specific for the operations (I guess most operations are related to
a provider for a particular schema)  then I don't see the need to have
the intermediate VFS layer, you can as well  create a client based
directly on the underlying layer.

Does anyone have any experience with using the operations?

Thanks,

Frank
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Re: [VFS] How to use operations

James Carman
Are you sticking to the FileObject API?

On Sun, Jul 13, 2008 at 2:41 PM, Frank van der Kleij <[hidden email]> wrote:

>
> Hi all,
>
> I'm toying with my own VFS operations but I can't quite figure out how to work with them.
>
> I
> don't see how a client of the VFS framework should use the operations;
> other than when the client has prior knowledge of the operations that
> exist.
>
> I wrote a beanshell script that rewrites the basic
> beanshell interpreter file manipulations (cd, pwd, cp, mv etc) to VFS
> manipulations. It works  great and  I can use my custom provider (for
> Documentum) without any problem within the beanshell interpreter. When
> I tried to add support for operations I found that it is difficult to
> make  it generic though.
>
> I added some operations to my provider
> just to try; when I list the available operations I get a list of
> Classes. As a user it is quite hard to interpret this. I could try to
> use Reflection, but a user readable description of what the operation
> seems far away.
>
> In my view the operations only become
> interesting when they are usable by a generic VFS client. If the client
> is specific for the operations (I guess most operations are related to
> a provider for a particular schema)  then I don't see the need to have
> the intermediate VFS layer, you can as well  create a client based
> directly on the underlying layer.
>
> Does anyone have any experience with using the operations?
>
> Thanks,
>
> Frank
> _________________________________________________________________
> Express yourself instantly with MSN Messenger! Download today it's FREE!
> http://messenger.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200471ave/direct/01/

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RE: [VFS] How to use operations

Frank van der Kleij

Yes, I guess so; are there other APIs? I don't see where you getting at...

Thanks,

Frank

> Date: Sun, 13 Jul 2008 21:37:26 -0400
> From: [hidden email]
> To: [hidden email]
> Subject: Re: [VFS] How to use operations
>
> Are you sticking to the FileObject API?
>
> On Sun, Jul 13, 2008 at 2:41 PM, Frank van der Kleij <[hidden email]> wrote:
> >
> > Hi all,
> >
> > I'm toying with my own VFS operations but I can't quite figure out how to work with them.
> >
> > I
> > don't see how a client of the VFS framework should use the operations;
> > other than when the client has prior knowledge of the operations that
> > exist.
> >
> > I wrote a beanshell script that rewrites the basic
> > beanshell interpreter file manipulations (cd, pwd, cp, mv etc) to VFS
> > manipulations. It works  great and  I can use my custom provider (for
> > Documentum) without any problem within the beanshell interpreter. When
> > I tried to add support for operations I found that it is difficult to
> > make  it generic though.
> >
> > I added some operations to my provider
> > just to try; when I list the available operations I get a list of
> > Classes. As a user it is quite hard to interpret this. I could try to
> > use Reflection, but a user readable description of what the operation
> > seems far away.
> >
> > In my view the operations only become
> > interesting when they are usable by a generic VFS client. If the client
> > is specific for the operations (I guess most operations are related to
> > a provider for a particular schema)  then I don't see the need to have
> > the intermediate VFS layer, you can as well  create a client based
> > directly on the underlying layer.
> >
> > Does anyone have any experience with using the operations?
> >
> > Thanks,
> >
> > Frank
> > _________________________________________________________________
> > Express yourself instantly with MSN Messenger! Download today it's FREE!
> > http://messenger.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200471ave/direct/01/
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
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> For additional commands, e-mail: [hidden email]
>

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Re: [VFS] How to use operations

James Carman
What I'm getting at is that if you stick to the VFS public API (the
FileObject interface), you should have a pretty good idea of what
operations are available across the different implementations.  Of
course, some implementations don't support all operations (HTTP can't
give you a directory listing for instance).


On Mon, Jul 14, 2008 at 5:41 AM, Frank van der Kleij <[hidden email]> wrote:

>
> Yes, I guess so; are there other APIs? I don't see where you getting at...
>
> Thanks,
>
> Frank
>
>> Date: Sun, 13 Jul 2008 21:37:26 -0400
>> From: [hidden email]
>> To: [hidden email]
>> Subject: Re: [VFS] How to use operations
>>
>> Are you sticking to the FileObject API?
>>
>> On Sun, Jul 13, 2008 at 2:41 PM, Frank van der Kleij <[hidden email]> wrote:
>> >
>> > Hi all,
>> >
>> > I'm toying with my own VFS operations but I can't quite figure out how to work with them.
>> >
>> > I
>> > don't see how a client of the VFS framework should use the operations;
>> > other than when the client has prior knowledge of the operations that
>> > exist.
>> >
>> > I wrote a beanshell script that rewrites the basic
>> > beanshell interpreter file manipulations (cd, pwd, cp, mv etc) to VFS
>> > manipulations. It works  great and  I can use my custom provider (for
>> > Documentum) without any problem within the beanshell interpreter. When
>> > I tried to add support for operations I found that it is difficult to
>> > make  it generic though.
>> >
>> > I added some operations to my provider
>> > just to try; when I list the available operations I get a list of
>> > Classes. As a user it is quite hard to interpret this. I could try to
>> > use Reflection, but a user readable description of what the operation
>> > seems far away.
>> >
>> > In my view the operations only become
>> > interesting when they are usable by a generic VFS client. If the client
>> > is specific for the operations (I guess most operations are related to
>> > a provider for a particular schema)  then I don't see the need to have
>> > the intermediate VFS layer, you can as well  create a client based
>> > directly on the underlying layer.
>> >
>> > Does anyone have any experience with using the operations?
>> >
>> > Thanks,
>> >
>> > Frank
>> > _________________________________________________________________
>> > Express yourself instantly with MSN Messenger! Download today it's FREE!
>> > http://messenger.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200471ave/direct/01/
>>
>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: [hidden email]
>> For additional commands, e-mail: [hidden email]
>>
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> Express yourself instantly with MSN Messenger! Download today it's FREE!
> http://messenger.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200471ave/direct/01/

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RE: [VFS] How to use operations

Frank van der Kleij

Ah, now I see! Sorry, I tried to refer to the 'FileOperations': FileObject.getOperations().

There is some code in org.apache.commons.vfs.operations and org.apache.commons.vfs.operations.vcs.

Thanks for helping me clarify.

Frank

> Date: Mon, 14 Jul 2008 06:38:25 -0400
> From: [hidden email]
> To: [hidden email]
> Subject: Re: [VFS] How to use operations
>
> What I'm getting at is that if you stick to the VFS public API (the
> FileObject interface), you should have a pretty good idea of what
> operations are available across the different implementations.  Of
> course, some implementations don't support all operations (HTTP can't
> give you a directory listing for instance).
>
>
> On Mon, Jul 14, 2008 at 5:41 AM, Frank van der Kleij <[hidden email]> wrote:
> >
> > Yes, I guess so; are there other APIs? I don't see where you getting at...
> >
> > Thanks,
> >
> > Frank
> >
> >> Date: Sun, 13 Jul 2008 21:37:26 -0400
> >> From: [hidden email]
> >> To: [hidden email]
> >> Subject: Re: [VFS] How to use operations
> >>
> >> Are you sticking to the FileObject API?
> >>
> >> On Sun, Jul 13, 2008 at 2:41 PM, Frank van der Kleij <[hidden email]> wrote:
> >> >
> >> > Hi all,
> >> >
> >> > I'm toying with my own VFS operations but I can't quite figure out how to work with them.
> >> >
> >> > I
> >> > don't see how a client of the VFS framework should use the operations;
> >> > other than when the client has prior knowledge of the operations that
> >> > exist.
> >> >
> >> > I wrote a beanshell script that rewrites the basic
> >> > beanshell interpreter file manipulations (cd, pwd, cp, mv etc) to VFS
> >> > manipulations. It works  great and  I can use my custom provider (for
> >> > Documentum) without any problem within the beanshell interpreter. When
> >> > I tried to add support for operations I found that it is difficult to
> >> > make  it generic though.
> >> >
> >> > I added some operations to my provider
> >> > just to try; when I list the available operations I get a list of
> >> > Classes. As a user it is quite hard to interpret this. I could try to
> >> > use Reflection, but a user readable description of what the operation
> >> > seems far away.
> >> >
> >> > In my view the operations only become
> >> > interesting when they are usable by a generic VFS client. If the client
> >> > is specific for the operations (I guess most operations are related to
> >> > a provider for a particular schema)  then I don't see the need to have
> >> > the intermediate VFS layer, you can as well  create a client based
> >> > directly on the underlying layer.
> >> >
> >> > Does anyone have any experience with using the operations?
> >> >
> >> > Thanks,
> >> >
> >> > Frank
> >> > _________________________________________________________________
> >> > Express yourself instantly with MSN Messenger! Download today it's FREE!
> >> > http://messenger.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200471ave/direct/01/
> >>
> >> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> >> To unsubscribe, e-mail: [hidden email]
> >> For additional commands, e-mail: [hidden email]
> >>
> >
> > _________________________________________________________________
> > Express yourself instantly with MSN Messenger! Download today it's FREE!
> > http://messenger.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200471ave/direct/01/
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
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> For additional commands, e-mail: [hidden email]
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Re: [VFS] How to use operations

James Carman
Check the Javadocs for FileOperation/s.  It's intended to be used for
"extensions" to the core API that could be provided by some
implementations (the example given is a version control system, such
as CVS/SVN).

On Mon, Jul 14, 2008 at 7:13 AM, Frank van der Kleij <[hidden email]> wrote:

>
> Ah, now I see! Sorry, I tried to refer to the 'FileOperations': FileObject.getOperations().
>
> There is some code in org.apache.commons.vfs.operations and org.apache.commons.vfs.operations.vcs.
>
> Thanks for helping me clarify.
>
> Frank
>
>> Date: Mon, 14 Jul 2008 06:38:25 -0400
>> From: [hidden email]
>> To: [hidden email]
>> Subject: Re: [VFS] How to use operations
>>
>> What I'm getting at is that if you stick to the VFS public API (the
>> FileObject interface), you should have a pretty good idea of what
>> operations are available across the different implementations.  Of
>> course, some implementations don't support all operations (HTTP can't
>> give you a directory listing for instance).
>>
>>
>> On Mon, Jul 14, 2008 at 5:41 AM, Frank van der Kleij <[hidden email]> wrote:
>> >
>> > Yes, I guess so; are there other APIs? I don't see where you getting at...
>> >
>> > Thanks,
>> >
>> > Frank
>> >
>> >> Date: Sun, 13 Jul 2008 21:37:26 -0400
>> >> From: [hidden email]
>> >> To: [hidden email]
>> >> Subject: Re: [VFS] How to use operations
>> >>
>> >> Are you sticking to the FileObject API?
>> >>
>> >> On Sun, Jul 13, 2008 at 2:41 PM, Frank van der Kleij <[hidden email]> wrote:
>> >> >
>> >> > Hi all,
>> >> >
>> >> > I'm toying with my own VFS operations but I can't quite figure out how to work with them.
>> >> >
>> >> > I
>> >> > don't see how a client of the VFS framework should use the operations;
>> >> > other than when the client has prior knowledge of the operations that
>> >> > exist.
>> >> >
>> >> > I wrote a beanshell script that rewrites the basic
>> >> > beanshell interpreter file manipulations (cd, pwd, cp, mv etc) to VFS
>> >> > manipulations. It works  great and  I can use my custom provider (for
>> >> > Documentum) without any problem within the beanshell interpreter. When
>> >> > I tried to add support for operations I found that it is difficult to
>> >> > make  it generic though.
>> >> >
>> >> > I added some operations to my provider
>> >> > just to try; when I list the available operations I get a list of
>> >> > Classes. As a user it is quite hard to interpret this. I could try to
>> >> > use Reflection, but a user readable description of what the operation
>> >> > seems far away.
>> >> >
>> >> > In my view the operations only become
>> >> > interesting when they are usable by a generic VFS client. If the client
>> >> > is specific for the operations (I guess most operations are related to
>> >> > a provider for a particular schema)  then I don't see the need to have
>> >> > the intermediate VFS layer, you can as well  create a client based
>> >> > directly on the underlying layer.
>> >> >
>> >> > Does anyone have any experience with using the operations?
>> >> >
>> >> > Thanks,
>> >> >
>> >> > Frank
>> >> > _________________________________________________________________
>> >> > Express yourself instantly with MSN Messenger! Download today it's FREE!
>> >> > http://messenger.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200471ave/direct/01/
>> >>
>> >> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>> >> To unsubscribe, e-mail: [hidden email]
>> >> For additional commands, e-mail: [hidden email]
>> >>
>> >
>> > _________________________________________________________________
>> > Express yourself instantly with MSN Messenger! Download today it's FREE!
>> > http://messenger.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200471ave/direct/01/
>>
>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: [hidden email]
>> For additional commands, e-mail: [hidden email]
>>
>
> _________________________________________________________________
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RE: [VFS] How to use operations

Frank van der Kleij

Yeah, I know what it is; I did read the JavaDocs and I have implemented some FileOperations myself.

I am just curious if anyone else has ever used them and how they did it.

Is the only use of them when you create your own client that knows about your own operations? Or should any VFS client (e.g. JCommander)  know how to discover which operations exist, select one, configure it and execute it?

Frank

> Date: Mon, 14 Jul 2008 07:24:50 -0400
> From: [hidden email]
> To: [hidden email]
> Subject: Re: [VFS] How to use operations
>
> Check the Javadocs for FileOperation/s.  It's intended to be used for
> "extensions" to the core API that could be provided by some
> implementations (the example given is a version control system, such
> as CVS/SVN).
>
> On Mon, Jul 14, 2008 at 7:13 AM, Frank van der Kleij <[hidden email]> wrote:
> >
> > Ah, now I see! Sorry, I tried to refer to the 'FileOperations': FileObject.getOperations().
> >
> > There is some code in org.apache.commons.vfs.operations and org.apache.commons.vfs.operations.vcs.
> >
> > Thanks for helping me clarify.
> >
> > Frank
> >
> >> Date: Mon, 14 Jul 2008 06:38:25 -0400
> >> From: [hidden email]
> >> To: [hidden email]
> >> Subject: Re: [VFS] How to use operations
> >>
> >> What I'm getting at is that if you stick to the VFS public API (the
> >> FileObject interface), you should have a pretty good idea of what
> >> operations are available across the different implementations.  Of
> >> course, some implementations don't support all operations (HTTP can't
> >> give you a directory listing for instance).
> >>
> >>
> >> On Mon, Jul 14, 2008 at 5:41 AM, Frank van der Kleij <[hidden email]> wrote:
> >> >
> >> > Yes, I guess so; are there other APIs? I don't see where you getting at...
> >> >
> >> > Thanks,
> >> >
> >> > Frank
> >> >
> >> >> Date: Sun, 13 Jul 2008 21:37:26 -0400
> >> >> From: [hidden email]
> >> >> To: [hidden email]
> >> >> Subject: Re: [VFS] How to use operations
> >> >>
> >> >> Are you sticking to the FileObject API?
> >> >>
> >> >> On Sun, Jul 13, 2008 at 2:41 PM, Frank van der Kleij <[hidden email]> wrote:
> >> >> >
> >> >> > Hi all,
> >> >> >
> >> >> > I'm toying with my own VFS operations but I can't quite figure out how to work with them.
> >> >> >
> >> >> > I
> >> >> > don't see how a client of the VFS framework should use the operations;
> >> >> > other than when the client has prior knowledge of the operations that
> >> >> > exist.
> >> >> >
> >> >> > I wrote a beanshell script that rewrites the basic
> >> >> > beanshell interpreter file manipulations (cd, pwd, cp, mv etc) to VFS
> >> >> > manipulations. It works  great and  I can use my custom provider (for
> >> >> > Documentum) without any problem within the beanshell interpreter. When
> >> >> > I tried to add support for operations I found that it is difficult to
> >> >> > make  it generic though.
> >> >> >
> >> >> > I added some operations to my provider
> >> >> > just to try; when I list the available operations I get a list of
> >> >> > Classes. As a user it is quite hard to interpret this. I could try to
> >> >> > use Reflection, but a user readable description of what the operation
> >> >> > seems far away.
> >> >> >
> >> >> > In my view the operations only become
> >> >> > interesting when they are usable by a generic VFS client. If the client
> >> >> > is specific for the operations (I guess most operations are related to
> >> >> > a provider for a particular schema)  then I don't see the need to have
> >> >> > the intermediate VFS layer, you can as well  create a client based
> >> >> > directly on the underlying layer.
> >> >> >
> >> >> > Does anyone have any experience with using the operations?
> >> >> >
> >> >> > Thanks,
> >> >> >
> >> >> > Frank
> >> >> > _________________________________________________________________
> >> >> > Express yourself instantly with MSN Messenger! Download today it's FREE!
> >> >> > http://messenger.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200471ave/direct/01/
> >> >>
> >> >> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> >> >> To unsubscribe, e-mail: [hidden email]
> >> >> For additional commands, e-mail: [hidden email]
> >> >>
> >> >
> >> > _________________________________________________________________
> >> > Express yourself instantly with MSN Messenger! Download today it's FREE!
> >> > http://messenger.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200471ave/direct/01/
> >>
> >> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> >> To unsubscribe, e-mail: [hidden email]
> >> For additional commands, e-mail: [hidden email]
> >>
> >
> > _________________________________________________________________
> > Express yourself instantly with MSN Messenger! Download today it's FREE!
> > http://messenger.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200471ave/direct/01/
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
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Re: [VFS] How to use operations

Mario Ivankovits
Hi!
> I am just curious if anyone else has ever used them and how they did it.
>  
I am not sure, this is some of the last things I added (with the help of
a contributor) but didn't finished it, nor documented it :-( *help*

> Is the only use of them when you create your own client that knows about your own operations? Or should any VFS client (e.g. JCommander)  know how to discover which operations exist, select one, configure it and execute it?
>  
The idea is to being able to lookup "abstract" operations. For example
the "update" operation and VFS returns a CsvUpdate or SvnUpdate
depending on the used implementation.
As far as I remeber there is a way to list all file operations. A tool
like JCommander than can use reflection to get an idea of which
configuration options are available and can present a user a list then.

Ciao,
Mario


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Re: [VFS] How to use operations

James Carman
On Mon, Jul 14, 2008 at 9:12 AM, Mario Ivankovits <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> The idea is to being able to lookup "abstract" operations. For example the
> "update" operation and VFS returns a CsvUpdate or SvnUpdate depending on the
> used implementation.
> As far as I remeber there is a way to list all file operations. A tool like
> JCommander than can use reflection to get an idea of which configuration
> options are available and can present a user a list then.
>

It might be nice if these operations classes had BeanInfo classes
associated with them so that GUI applications could display their
options a bit easier.

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Re: [VFS] How to use operations

Mario Ivankovits
Hi James!

>> The idea is to being able to lookup "abstract" operations. For example the
>> "update" operation and VFS returns a CsvUpdate or SvnUpdate depending on the
>> used implementation.
>> As far as I remeber there is a way to list all file operations. A tool like
>> JCommander than can use reflection to get an idea of which configuration
>> options are available and can present a user a list then.
>>
>>    
>
> It might be nice if these operations classes had BeanInfo classes
> associated with them so that GUI applications could display their
> options a bit easier.
>  
Sure, but I'd prefer using annotations over BeanInfo. This means we have
to switch to Java 1.5, but this might be an option then :-)

Ciao,
Mario
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Re: [VFS] How to use operations

James Carman
On Mon, Jul 14, 2008 at 9:22 AM, Mario Ivankovits <[hidden email]> wrote:

>>
>> It might be nice if these operations classes had BeanInfo classes
>> associated with them so that GUI applications could display their
>> options a bit easier.

As long as you use a "standard" set of annotations, that would be
great.  I only mentioned the Javabeans method because there are
already components out there that can edit a Javabean given its
BeanInfo object.

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Re: [VFS] How to use operations

Mario Ivankovits
Hi!
> As long as you use a "standard" set of annotations, that would be
> great.  I only mentioned the Javabeans method because there are
> already components out there that can edit a Javabean given its
> BeanInfo object.
>  
Its fine! Probably using BeanInfo would be a good first step, afterwards
we can see if there exists a standard set of annotations.

Ciao,
Mario


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RE: [VFS] How to use operations

Frank van der Kleij

Thanks, it helped! I can now retrieve details about the operations. I have two more questions that perhaps you can help me with though I admit that perhaps there is no straight answer.

1. Do you have any mechanism in mind to give feedback on the result of the operation?  
2. Should the FileOperations.getOperations() method return a list of interfaces or a list of implementing classes?

Thanks,

Frank

> Date: Mon, 14 Jul 2008 15:33:35 +0200
> From: [hidden email]
> To: [hidden email]
> Subject: Re: [VFS] How to use operations
>
> Hi!
> > As long as you use a "standard" set of annotations, that would be
> > great.  I only mentioned the Javabeans method because there are
> > already components out there that can edit a Javabean given its
> > BeanInfo object.
> >  
> Its fine! Probably using BeanInfo would be a good first step, afterwards
> we can see if there exists a standard set of annotations.
>
> Ciao,
> Mario
>
>
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>

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Re: [VFS] How to use operations

Mario Ivankovits
Hi!
> 1. Do you have any mechanism in mind to give feedback on the result of the operation?
>  
Not yet, this is all work in progress. But probably changing the
FileOperation interface to
ProcessReturn process()
and add a new ProcessReturn interface with.
boolean isCorrect();
int getReturnCode();

> 2. Should the FileOperations.getOperations() method return a list of interfaces or a list of implementing classes?
>  
Also not that easy to answer. At the moment I think we should return a
list of interfaces as a concrete implementation might implement
different interfaces.

Ok, no I am on vacation for two weeks. I hope this is sufficient for
now, I'll catch up after my vacation with your current status. I am
looking forward to it :-)


Ciao,
Mario


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RE: [VFS] How to use operations

Jörg Schaible-2
Mario Ivankovits wrote:
> Hi!
>> 1. Do you have any mechanism in mind to give feedback on the result
>> of the operation?
>>
> Not yet, this is all work in progress. But probably changing the
> FileOperation interface to ProcessReturn process()
> and add a new ProcessReturn interface with.
> boolean isCorrect();
> int getReturnCode();

Why not simply use a java.util.concurrent.Future implementation?

- Jörg

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