[VOTE] commons karma for Jochen Wiedmann

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[VOTE] commons karma for Jochen Wiedmann

rdonkin
Jochen Wiedmann ([hidden email]) is a pmc'er over in web services
land. Jochen would like commons karma
(<a href="http://mail-archives.apache.org/mod_mbox/jakarta-general/200605.mbox/%">http://mail-archives.apache.org/mod_mbox/jakarta-general/200605.mbox/%
[hidden email]%3e) to help work on file-upload.

i trust that he'll discuss any plans with the file upload team but i
think we can use his help. since this is a vote for karma, i think this
can be executed a little quicker than normal. i'll tally votes not
earlier than 2230 hours GMT on Thursday 25th of May.

here's my +1

- robert

--8<----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
[ ] +1 grant Jochen Wiedmann commons karma
[ ] +0
[ ] -0
[ ] -1 do not grant Jochen Wiedmann commons karma
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

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Re: [VOTE] commons karma for Jochen Wiedmann

Henri Yandell
+1.

I'd like to reach a point where we'd let existing ASF people have
karma on request. A quick vote isn't much of a delay though.

Hen

On 5/23/06, robert burrell donkin <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Jochen Wiedmann ([hidden email]) is a pmc'er over in web services
> land. Jochen would like commons karma
> (<a href="http://mail-archives.apache.org/mod_mbox/jakarta-general/200605.mbox/%">http://mail-archives.apache.org/mod_mbox/jakarta-general/200605.mbox/%
> [hidden email]%3e) to help work on file-upload.
>
> i trust that he'll discuss any plans with the file upload team but i
> think we can use his help. since this is a vote for karma, i think this
> can be executed a little quicker than normal. i'll tally votes not
> earlier than 2230 hours GMT on Thursday 25th of May.
>
> here's my +1
>
> - robert
>
> --8<----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> [ ] +1 grant Jochen Wiedmann commons karma
> [ ] +0
> [ ] -0
> [ ] -1 do not grant Jochen Wiedmann commons karma
> -----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
> Version: GnuPG v1.2.4 (GNU/Linux)
>
> iD8DBQBEc41X1TNOdbExPeIRAg+xAKCZYOGmRiIaWRm6ahZkKCRS6iVNsgCgiNSS
> sJe7UQU/8bO3x5HsIXLikKA=
> =LRFX
> -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
>
>
>

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Re: [VOTE] commons karma for Jochen Wiedmann

Dion Gillard-2
In reply to this post by rdonkin
+1

On 5/24/06, robert burrell donkin <[hidden email]> wrote:

>
> Jochen Wiedmann ([hidden email]) is a pmc'er over in web services
> land. Jochen would like commons karma
> (<a href="http://mail-archives.apache.org/mod_mbox/jakarta-general/200605.mbox/%">http://mail-archives.apache.org/mod_mbox/jakarta-general/200605.mbox/%
> [hidden email]%3e) to help work on file-upload.
>
> i trust that he'll discuss any plans with the file upload team but i
> think we can use his help. since this is a vote for karma, i think this
> can be executed a little quicker than normal. i'll tally votes not
> earlier than 2230 hours GMT on Thursday 25th of May.
>
> here's my +1
>
> - robert
>
>
> --8<----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> [ ] +1 grant Jochen Wiedmann commons karma
> [ ] +0
> [ ] -0
> [ ] -1 do not grant Jochen Wiedmann commons karma
>
> -----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
> Version: GnuPG v1.2.4 (GNU/Linux)
>
> iD8DBQBEc41X1TNOdbExPeIRAg+xAKCZYOGmRiIaWRm6ahZkKCRS6iVNsgCgiNSS
> sJe7UQU/8bO3x5HsIXLikKA=
> =LRFX
> -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
>
>
>


--
http://www.multitask.com.au/people/dion/
Chuck Norris sleeps with a night light. Not because Chuck Norris is afraid
of the dark, but because the dark is afraid of Chuck Norris
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Re: [VOTE] commons karma for Jochen Wiedmann

Stephen Colebourne
In reply to this post by rdonkin
robert burrell donkin wrote:
> Jochen Wiedmann ([hidden email]) is a pmc'er over in web services
> land. Jochen would like commons karma
+1
Stephen

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Re: [VOTE] commons karma for Jochen Wiedmann

Martin Cooper-3
In reply to this post by rdonkin
On 5/23/06, robert burrell donkin <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> Jochen Wiedmann ([hidden email]) is a pmc'er over in web services
> land. Jochen would like commons karma
> (<a href="http://mail-archives.apache.org/mod_mbox/jakarta-general/200605.mbox/%">http://mail-archives.apache.org/mod_mbox/jakarta-general/200605.mbox/%
> [hidden email]%3e) to help work on file-upload.


Since when did we start inviting people into Jakarta based on their first
(AFAIK) proposed - and not yet accepted - patch? Has anyone looked at the
patch? I haven't seen any discussion on it, and I know that I'm not going to
have time to look at it until the weekend, long after this vote will have
closed, apparently.

This is nothing personal against Jochen - I don't know him at all - and is
not related to the fact that his contribution is for FileUpload. I'm just
very concerned at how low we're setting the bar these days. I, for one, do
not subscribe to the "Some of the guys over in project X think Fred is OK,
so he must be OK" modus operandum. Are we really saying that we'll allow
other projects to decide on who merits commit access to Jakarta? That's what
Hen appears to be saying, and I object strongly.

--
Martin Cooper


i trust that he'll discuss any plans with the file upload team but i

> think we can use his help. since this is a vote for karma, i think this
> can be executed a little quicker than normal. i'll tally votes not
> earlier than 2230 hours GMT on Thursday 25th of May.
>
> here's my +1
>
> - robert
>
>
> --8<----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> [ ] +1 grant Jochen Wiedmann commons karma
> [ ] +0
> [ ] -0
> [ ] -1 do not grant Jochen Wiedmann commons karma
>
> -----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
> Version: GnuPG v1.2.4 (GNU/Linux)
>
> iD8DBQBEc41X1TNOdbExPeIRAg+xAKCZYOGmRiIaWRm6ahZkKCRS6iVNsgCgiNSS
> sJe7UQU/8bO3x5HsIXLikKA=
> =LRFX
> -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
>
>
>
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Re: [VOTE] commons karma for Jochen Wiedmann

Yoav Shapira-2
Hola,

> On 5/23/06, robert burrell donkin <rdonkin <at> apache.org> wrote:
> >
> > Jochen Wiedmann (jochen <at> apache.org) is a
> > pmc'er over in web services
> > land. Jochen would like commons karma
> > (<a href="http://mail-archives.apache.org/mod_mbox/jakarta-general/200605.mbox/%">http://mail-archives.apache.org/mod_mbox/jakarta-general/200605.mbox/%
> > 3c4472E7BD.2080709 <at> gmail.com%3e) to help work on file-upload.
>
> Since when did we start inviting people into Jakarta based on
> their first (AFAIK) proposed - and not yet accepted - patch?
> Has anyone looked at the patch? I haven't seen any discussion
> on it, and I know that I'm not going to have time to look
> at it until the weekend, long after this vote will have
> closed, apparently.

I imagine we can keep the vote open that long if you have concerns.  

As to the question at the beginning of the paragraph, I would
imagine it's a fairly unusual scenario, but one answer that
comes to mind is "when the component has no other active
developers."

--8<---------------------------------------------------------------
> > [ X ] +1 grant Jochen Wiedmann commons karma
> > [ ] +0
> > [ ] -0
> > [ ] -1 do not grant Jochen Wiedmann commons karma

Yoav (via gmane)


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Re: [VOTE] commons karma for Jochen Wiedmann

Davanum Srinivas
[ X ] +1 grant Jochen Wiedmann commons karma

I can vouch for Jochen :)

thanks,
dims

On 5/23/06, Yoav Shapira <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Hola,
>
> > On 5/23/06, robert burrell donkin <rdonkin <at> apache.org> wrote:
> > >
> > > Jochen Wiedmann (jochen <at> apache.org) is a
> > > pmc'er over in web services
> > > land. Jochen would like commons karma
> > > (<a href="http://mail-archives.apache.org/mod_mbox/jakarta-general/200605.mbox/%">http://mail-archives.apache.org/mod_mbox/jakarta-general/200605.mbox/%
> > > 3c4472E7BD.2080709 <at> gmail.com%3e) to help work on file-upload.
> >
> > Since when did we start inviting people into Jakarta based on
> > their first (AFAIK) proposed - and not yet accepted - patch?
> > Has anyone looked at the patch? I haven't seen any discussion
> > on it, and I know that I'm not going to have time to look
> > at it until the weekend, long after this vote will have
> > closed, apparently.
>
> I imagine we can keep the vote open that long if you have concerns.
>
> As to the question at the beginning of the paragraph, I would
> imagine it's a fairly unusual scenario, but one answer that
> comes to mind is "when the component has no other active
> developers."
>
> --8<---------------------------------------------------------------
> > > [ X ] +1 grant Jochen Wiedmann commons karma
> > > [ ] +0
> > > [ ] -0
> > > [ ] -1 do not grant Jochen Wiedmann commons karma
>
> Yoav (via gmane)
>
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: [hidden email]
> For additional commands, e-mail: [hidden email]
>
>


--
Davanum Srinivas : http://wso2.com/blogs/

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Re: [VOTE] commons karma for Jochen Wiedmann

Martin Cooper-3
In reply to this post by Yoav Shapira-2
On 5/23/06, Yoav Shapira <[hidden email]> wrote:

>
> Hola,
>
> > On 5/23/06, robert burrell donkin <rdonkin <at> apache.org> wrote:
> > >
> > > Jochen Wiedmann (jochen <at> apache.org) is a
> > > pmc'er over in web services
> > > land. Jochen would like commons karma
> > > (
> <a href="http://mail-archives.apache.org/mod_mbox/jakarta-general/200605.mbox/%">http://mail-archives.apache.org/mod_mbox/jakarta-general/200605.mbox/%
> > > 3c4472E7BD.2080709 <at> gmail.com%3e) to help work on file-upload.
> >
> > Since when did we start inviting people into Jakarta based on
> > their first (AFAIK) proposed - and not yet accepted - patch?
> > Has anyone looked at the patch? I haven't seen any discussion
> > on it, and I know that I'm not going to have time to look
> > at it until the weekend, long after this vote will have
> > closed, apparently.
>
> I imagine we can keep the vote open that long if you have concerns.
>
> As to the question at the beginning of the paragraph, I would
> imagine it's a fairly unusual scenario, but one answer that
> comes to mind is "when the component has no other active
> developers."


So I guess the fact that I've only fixed a handful of FileUpload issues this
year makes me an inactive developer? And thus being the last one to have
been active, opens the door as you suggest?

--
Martin Cooper


--8<---------------------------------------------------------------

> > > [ X ] +1 grant Jochen Wiedmann commons karma
> > > [ ] +0
> > > [ ] -0
> > > [ ] -1 do not grant Jochen Wiedmann commons karma
>
> Yoav (via gmane)
>
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: [hidden email]
> For additional commands, e-mail: [hidden email]
>
>
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Re: [VOTE] commons karma for Jochen Wiedmann

Henri Yandell
In reply to this post by Martin Cooper-3
On 5/23/06, Martin Cooper <[hidden email]> wrote:

> On 5/23/06, robert burrell donkin <[hidden email]> wrote:
> >
> > Jochen Wiedmann ([hidden email]) is a pmc'er over in web services
> > land. Jochen would like commons karma
> > (<a href="http://mail-archives.apache.org/mod_mbox/jakarta-general/200605.mbox/%">http://mail-archives.apache.org/mod_mbox/jakarta-general/200605.mbox/%
> > [hidden email]%3e) to help work on file-upload.
>
>
> Since when did we start inviting people into Jakarta based on their first
> (AFAIK) proposed - and not yet accepted - patch? Has anyone looked at the
> patch? I haven't seen any discussion on it, and I know that I'm not going to
> have time to look at it until the weekend, long after this vote will have
> closed, apparently.
>
> This is nothing personal against Jochen - I don't know him at all - and is

My +1 was based on having seen Jochen's name popping around in various
places over the years.

> not related to the fact that his contribution is for FileUpload. I'm just
> very concerned at how low we're setting the bar these days. I, for one, do
> not subscribe to the "Some of the guys over in project X think Fred is OK,
> so he must be OK" modus operandum. Are we really saying that we'll allow
> other projects to decide on who merits commit access to Jakarta? That's what
> Hen appears to be saying, and I object strongly.

More that we'd be very open to anyone who has already earnt the trust
of the apache community. If a project wanted to pull a subcomponent
out of their code and make it more generically available, it'd be nice
if they felt they could bring it to commons without feeling like they
were handing it over to the commons community and hoping that we'd
continue to make releases etc. Rather they'd view themselves as a part
of the commons community.

In respect to Yoav's comment, it wasn't intended as a way to give
potentially inactive components a kickstart.

Hen

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Re: [VOTE] commons karma for Jochen Wiedmann

jochen-2
In reply to this post by rdonkin
Hi,

> Since when did we start inviting people into Jakarta based on their first
> (AFAIK) proposed - and not yet accepted - patch? Has anyone looked at the
> patch? I haven't seen any discussion on it, and I know that I'm not going to
> have time to look at it until the weekend, long after this vote will have
> closed, apparently.

please let me state some points at this time:

- I did not ask for Karma explicitly. I phrased it like "may be when I
have earned trust,
  I can get Karma to finish the job", or something like that.
- Even more so, I am completely with Martin on that point. I wouldn't
invite a new
  developer to an existing project, at least not without good reasons,
without seeing
  (and possibly more important: discussing) code.
- This applies in particular to my proposed patch: Given the nature of
the proposed
  changes, they are obviously non-trivial. As I do not know the
project, the developers,
  and the users, it is most possibly unwise to let me introduce new
interfaces at the
  core or do stuff like that. This is something, an experienced
developer should do.
- My main concern was to make sure, that I have the attention of such
a developer,
  which would be ready to review, refuse, or pull in a series of
patches - each of which
  with a small, controllable effect and with the big picture in mind.
However, I admit
  that it wouldn't be my interest to wait several weeks for a reply.
That's why I have
  asked in front: If noone had replied, then I would have preferred to
save my time.

In other words: I'd be more than happy, if Martin would agree to be my
guide. I would, however, beg, that he agrees to spend some hours per
month so that we have a reasonal chance to get this in within the next
three months or so.


Jochen


--
Whenever you find yourself on the side of the
majority, it is time to pause and reflect.
(Mark Twain)

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Re: [VOTE] commons karma for Jochen Wiedmann

Yoav Shapira-2
In reply to this post by Henri Yandell
Henri Yandell <flamefew <at> gmail.com> writes:

> In respect to Yoav's comment, it wasn't intended as a way to give
> potentially inactive components a kickstart.

Absolutely true what Henri said.

Martin, I didn't mean to imply that you were inactive.  I apologize if that's
how it came across.  What I had in mind (and clearly didn't communicate well the
first time around) was that commons-fileupload is a widely-used component, and
as such I'm interested in getting more active developers for it, and generally a
more active community around it.  I didn't mean to slight you or anyone else
who's contributed to commons-fileupload.

Yoav



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Re: [VOTE] commons karma for Jochen Wiedmann

robert burrell donkin
In reply to this post by Martin Cooper-3
On Tue, 2006-05-23 at 15:58 -0700, Martin Cooper wrote:

> On 5/23/06, robert burrell donkin <[hidden email]> wrote:
> >
> > Jochen Wiedmann ([hidden email]) is a pmc'er over in web services
> > land. Jochen would like commons karma
> > (<a href="http://mail-archives.apache.org/mod_mbox/jakarta-general/200605.mbox/%">http://mail-archives.apache.org/mod_mbox/jakarta-general/200605.mbox/%
> > [hidden email]%3e) to help work on file-upload.
>
>
> Since when did we start inviting people into Jakarta based on their first
> (AFAIK) proposed - and not yet accepted - patch? Has anyone looked at the
> patch? I haven't seen any discussion on it, and I know that I'm not going to
> have time to look at it until the weekend, long after this vote will have
> closed, apparently.

sorry - i didn't intend to cause any offence. IMO fileupload isn't
inactive. perhaps i didn't make it clear enough that my intention for a
vote for jakarta karma only.  

i probably made a misjudgement in calling for a 48 hour vote only. it
sets a bad precedent.
 
> This is nothing personal against Jochen - I don't know him at all - and is
> not related to the fact that his contribution is for FileUpload. I'm just
> very concerned at how low we're setting the bar these days.

i admit that i do have a lower bar for existing apache committers (in
general) and for committers i know and trust (in particular). my
personal matrix involves an estimate of how much energy i'll need to
spare to effectively mentor them.

IMHO it's a hard judgement call. i've been too conservative in proposing
committers in the past. hopefully people will continue to jump in and
correct me if i start going too far the other way...

> I, for one, do not subscribe to the "Some of the guys over in project X think Fred is OK,
> so he must be OK" modus operandum.

i'm the guy you're talking about :-)
 
jochen's ok by me. i've worked with him for a number of years. i trust
him enough to propose him as a jakarta committer.

but i'm glad you raised this as a more general issue and i'd like to
hear you expand your opinions...

> Are we really saying that we'll allow
> other projects to decide on who merits commit access to Jakarta? That's what
> Hen appears to be saying, and I object strongly.

personally speaking, i would be very happy for a low bar
for existing apache committers. jakarta karma can be obtained on request
in any case (in order to work on sandbox components).  

but i don't see that being the same thing at all as allowing
unrestricted access to work on existing components. i hope that social
pressures would be enough (as they have proved to be in the past).  

- robert



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Re: [VOTE] commons karma for Jochen Wiedmann

Rahul Akolkar
I was torn whether my reply should go in this thread, and it probably
shouldn't since I have no comments towards the outcome of this vote.
I'll be as brief as possible.

On 5/23/06, Henri Yandell <[hidden email]> wrote:
<snip/>
> More that we'd be very open to anyone who has already earnt the trust
> of the apache community. If a project wanted to pull a subcomponent
> out of their code and make it more generically available, it'd be nice
> if they felt they could bring it to commons without feeling like they
> were handing it over to the commons community and hoping that we'd
> continue to make releases etc. Rather they'd view themselves as a part
> of the commons community.
>
<snap/>

On 5/24/06, robert burrell donkin <[hidden email]> wrote:
> On Tue, 2006-05-23 at 15:58 -0700, Martin Cooper wrote:
<snip/>

> > Are we really saying that we'll allow
> > other projects to decide on who merits commit access to Jakarta? That's what
> > Hen appears to be saying, and I object strongly.
>
> personally speaking, i would be very happy for a low bar
> for existing apache committers. jakarta karma can be obtained on request
> in any case (in order to work on sandbox components).
>
> but i don't see that being the same thing at all as allowing
> unrestricted access to work on existing components. i hope that social
> pressures would be enough (as they have proved to be in the past).
>
<snap/>

I'm sympathetic to the fact that the bar for existing ASF committers
should be lower. I also think that Martin is correct in pointing out
that the pendulum shouldn't swing too far across (its part of social
pressure IMO, if it helps to think of it that way -- notable
exceptions being sandbox / incubator style repositories). Specifically
for pulling out a subcomponent from an existing project, I believe we
already have an avenue that works (both code and people come in
through the sandbox).

-Rahul

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[RESULT] [VOTE] commons karma for Jochen Wiedmann

rdonkin
In reply to this post by rdonkin
i count:

+1's (binding)
  robert burrell donkin
  Stephen Colebourne
  Yoav Shapira
  Davanum Srinivas

with no other votes. if i have made any mistakes please post a correct.
 
therefore the vote for jakarta karma for jochen has passed.

- robert

On Tue, 2006-05-23 at 23:31 +0100, robert burrell donkin wrote:

> Jochen Wiedmann ([hidden email]) is a pmc'er over in web services
> land. Jochen would like commons karma
> (<a href="http://mail-archives.apache.org/mod_mbox/jakarta-general/200605.mbox/%">http://mail-archives.apache.org/mod_mbox/jakarta-general/200605.mbox/%
> [hidden email]%3e) to help work on file-upload.
>
> i trust that he'll discuss any plans with the file upload team but i
> think we can use his help. since this is a vote for karma, i think this
> can be executed a little quicker than normal. i'll tally votes not
> earlier than 2230 hours GMT on Thursday 25th of May.
>
> here's my +1
>
> - robert
>
> --8<----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> [ ] +1 grant Jochen Wiedmann commons karma
> [ ] +0
> [ ] -0
> [ ] -1 do not grant Jochen Wiedmann commons karma
> -----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

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Re: [RESULT] [VOTE] commons karma for Jochen Wiedmann

Henri Yandell
Karma done.

On 6/7/06, robert burrell donkin <[hidden email]> wrote:

> i count:
>
> +1's (binding)
>   robert burrell donkin
>   Stephen Colebourne
>   Yoav Shapira
>   Davanum Srinivas
>
> with no other votes. if i have made any mistakes please post a correct.
>
> therefore the vote for jakarta karma for jochen has passed.
>
> - robert
>
> On Tue, 2006-05-23 at 23:31 +0100, robert burrell donkin wrote:
> > Jochen Wiedmann ([hidden email]) is a pmc'er over in web services
> > land. Jochen would like commons karma
> > (<a href="http://mail-archives.apache.org/mod_mbox/jakarta-general/200605.mbox/%">http://mail-archives.apache.org/mod_mbox/jakarta-general/200605.mbox/%
> > [hidden email]%3e) to help work on file-upload.
> >
> > i trust that he'll discuss any plans with the file upload team but i
> > think we can use his help. since this is a vote for karma, i think this
> > can be executed a little quicker than normal. i'll tally votes not
> > earlier than 2230 hours GMT on Thursday 25th of May.
> >
> > here's my +1
> >
> > - robert
> >
> > --8<----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> > [ ] +1 grant Jochen Wiedmann commons karma
> > [ ] +0
> > [ ] -0
> > [ ] -1 do not grant Jochen Wiedmann commons karma
> > -----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>
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>
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>
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