[all] Splitting the mailing list

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[all] Splitting the mailing list

Henri Yandell
A while back Maven moved to having the commits and issues on different
mailing lists and it seems to be going well.

So I'd like to suggest:

[hidden email]  - reply-to to commons-dev
[hidden email]     - reply-to to commons-dev

I think the wiki notifications should stay on the dev list as they're
relatively low in number and they don't require any kind of restricted
authentication to get involved with. Any contributor can hop in and
fix a spelling mistake.

The obvious worry is over new committers not subscribing to those
lists. Firstly we can obviously make a point of mentioning that to new
committers - but mostly I think the number of Re: svn commit and Re:
[JIRA] emails that will appear will make them wonder what they're
missing.

Another advantage of the above just happened on the Tomcat list. A
mistake by a committer caused 2700 svn commits to be sent out (to
nearly 1000 subscribers). The ASF mail server took a good many hours
to recover - most of the day I think. So both those kind of errors,
and the large JIRA reorgs we've been doing would be hitting less
people.

One question:

Do we automatically subscribe everyone on dev@ and let them
unsubscribe. Or start the lists empty.

Hen

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Re: [all] Splitting the mailing list

Phil Steitz
I would rather that we find a way to reduce the JIRA noise, but only
the part of it that really is noise.  The real JIRA notifications and
commit diffs are as important as the other stuff on this list -
certainly as important as this message ;-)

Phil

On 7/20/06, Henri Yandell <[hidden email]> wrote:

> A while back Maven moved to having the commits and issues on different
> mailing lists and it seems to be going well.
>
> So I'd like to suggest:
>
> [hidden email]  - reply-to to commons-dev
> [hidden email]     - reply-to to commons-dev
>
> I think the wiki notifications should stay on the dev list as they're
> relatively low in number and they don't require any kind of restricted
> authentication to get involved with. Any contributor can hop in and
> fix a spelling mistake.
>
> The obvious worry is over new committers not subscribing to those
> lists. Firstly we can obviously make a point of mentioning that to new
> committers - but mostly I think the number of Re: svn commit and Re:
> [JIRA] emails that will appear will make them wonder what they're
> missing.
>
> Another advantage of the above just happened on the Tomcat list. A
> mistake by a committer caused 2700 svn commits to be sent out (to
> nearly 1000 subscribers). The ASF mail server took a good many hours
> to recover - most of the day I think. So both those kind of errors,
> and the large JIRA reorgs we've been doing would be hitting less
> people.
>
> One question:
>
> Do we automatically subscribe everyone on dev@ and let them
> unsubscribe. Or start the lists empty.
>
> Hen
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: [hidden email]
> For additional commands, e-mail: [hidden email]
>
>

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Re: [all] Splitting the mailing list

Brett Porter-2
In reply to this post by Henri Yandell
+1 to this proposal. I'd also suggest starting the list with the full
list of subscribers so nobody is immediately impacted.

- Brett


On 21/07/2006 10:15 AM, Henri Yandell wrote:

> A while back Maven moved to having the commits and issues on different
> mailing lists and it seems to be going well.
>
> So I'd like to suggest:
>
> [hidden email]  - reply-to to commons-dev
> [hidden email]     - reply-to to commons-dev
>
> I think the wiki notifications should stay on the dev list as they're
> relatively low in number and they don't require any kind of restricted
> authentication to get involved with. Any contributor can hop in and
> fix a spelling mistake.
>
> The obvious worry is over new committers not subscribing to those
> lists. Firstly we can obviously make a point of mentioning that to new
> committers - but mostly I think the number of Re: svn commit and Re:
> [JIRA] emails that will appear will make them wonder what they're
> missing.
>
> Another advantage of the above just happened on the Tomcat list. A
> mistake by a committer caused 2700 svn commits to be sent out (to
> nearly 1000 subscribers). The ASF mail server took a good many hours
> to recover - most of the day I think. So both those kind of errors,
> and the large JIRA reorgs we've been doing would be hitting less
> people.
>
> One question:
>
> Do we automatically subscribe everyone on dev@ and let them
> unsubscribe. Or start the lists empty.
>
> Hen
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: [hidden email]
> For additional commands, e-mail: [hidden email]
>


--
Apache Maven - http://maven.apache.org/
Better Builds with Maven - http://library.mergere.com/

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Re: [all] Splitting the mailing list

Henri Yandell
In reply to this post by Phil Steitz
On 7/20/06, Phil Steitz <[hidden email]> wrote:
> I would rather that we find a way to reduce the JIRA noise, but only
> the part of it that really is noise.  The real JIRA notifications and
> commit diffs are as important as the other stuff on this list -
> certainly as important as this message ;-)

Is it as important for contributors?  If I understand it correctly,
the idea of this change (a bunch of projects seem to be moving this
way) is that the developers see exactly what they used to see and the
contributors get a less spammy list and thus get more involved.

Especially useful for Commons I think as it should be such an easy
project to contribute to (very simple code by and large) and we've had
a distinct failure to ease contributors in.

Hen

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Re: [all] Splitting the mailing list

Niall Pemberton
In reply to this post by Brett Porter-2
+1

Niall

On 7/21/06, Brett Porter <[hidden email]> wrote:

> +1 to this proposal. I'd also suggest starting the list with the full
> list of subscribers so nobody is immediately impacted.
>
> - Brett
>
>
> On 21/07/2006 10:15 AM, Henri Yandell wrote:
> > A while back Maven moved to having the commits and issues on different
> > mailing lists and it seems to be going well.
> >
> > So I'd like to suggest:
> >
> > [hidden email]  - reply-to to commons-dev
> > [hidden email]     - reply-to to commons-dev
> >
> > I think the wiki notifications should stay on the dev list as they're
> > relatively low in number and they don't require any kind of restricted
> > authentication to get involved with. Any contributor can hop in and
> > fix a spelling mistake.
> >
> > The obvious worry is over new committers not subscribing to those
> > lists. Firstly we can obviously make a point of mentioning that to new
> > committers - but mostly I think the number of Re: svn commit and Re:
> > [JIRA] emails that will appear will make them wonder what they're
> > missing.
> >
> > Another advantage of the above just happened on the Tomcat list. A
> > mistake by a committer caused 2700 svn commits to be sent out (to
> > nearly 1000 subscribers). The ASF mail server took a good many hours
> > to recover - most of the day I think. So both those kind of errors,
> > and the large JIRA reorgs we've been doing would be hitting less
> > people.
> >
> > One question:
> >
> > Do we automatically subscribe everyone on dev@ and let them
> > unsubscribe. Or start the lists empty.
> >
> > Hen
> >
> > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> > To unsubscribe, e-mail: [hidden email]
> > For additional commands, e-mail: [hidden email]
> >
>
>
> --
> Apache Maven - http://maven.apache.org/
> Better Builds with Maven - http://library.mergere.com/
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: [hidden email]
> For additional commands, e-mail: [hidden email]
>
>

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RE: [all] Splitting the mailing list

James.Ring
In reply to this post by Henri Yandell
Hi Henri,

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Henri Yandell [mailto:[hidden email]]
> Sent: Friday, 21 July 2006 10:16 AM
> To: Jakarta Commons Developers List
> Subject: [all] Splitting the mailing list
>
>
> A while back Maven moved to having the commits and issues on different
> mailing lists and it seems to be going well.
>
> So I'd like to suggest:
>
> [hidden email]  - reply-to to commons-dev
> [hidden email]     - reply-to to commons-dev

-1!

I believe the commons-dev mailing list volume is too low to justify
segregated mailing lists. Just personally, I like the current arrangements.

I also think the JIRA 'noise' isn't a problem.

Regards,
James

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Re: [all] Splitting the mailing list

Wendy Smoak
In reply to this post by Henri Yandell
On 7/20/06, Henri Yandell <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Is it as important for contributors?  If I understand it correctly,
> the idea of this change (a bunch of projects seem to be moving this
> way) is that the developers see exactly what they used to see and the
> contributors get a less spammy list and thus get more involved.

It also allows people to choose not only what they receive, but how.
Email isn't the only way to 'subscribe' to the lists, you can also get
the Atom feed from the ASF mail archives, or use a forum interface
like Nabble.

(I'd keep dev@ for discussion only, and send wiki diffs to commits@.
While we're on the subject, will there be CI server notifications?)

Thanks,
--
Wendy

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Re: [all] Splitting the mailing list

Phil Steitz
On 7/20/06, Wendy Smoak <[hidden email]> wrote:
> On 7/20/06, Henri Yandell <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> > Is it as important for contributors?  If I understand it correctly,
> > the idea of this change (a bunch of projects seem to be moving this
> > way) is that the developers see exactly what they used to see and the
> > contributors get a less spammy list and thus get more involved.
>

Commit diffs are not spam, IMO, nor are issue reports / comments.
This is core to what is happening on a project.

> It also allows people to choose not only what they receive, but how.
> Email isn't the only way to 'subscribe' to the lists, you can also get
> the Atom feed from the ASF mail archives, or use a forum interface
> like Nabble.
>
> (I'd keep dev@ for discussion only, and send wiki diffs to commits@.
> While we're on the subject, will there be CI server notifications?)
>

Probably yet another little list, if we chase this to logical
conclusion.  One problem that I have with splitting things is that
Jira comments *are* discussion, as are commit log messages and
responses to these, etc. I don't like the idea of splitting these.

As far as the arguments about getting new contributors in, I would
like to hear from them.

Phil

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Re: [all] Splitting the mailing list

Martin Cooper-3
On 7/20/06, Phil Steitz <[hidden email]> wrote:

>
> On 7/20/06, Wendy Smoak <[hidden email]> wrote:
> > On 7/20/06, Henri Yandell <[hidden email]> wrote:
> >
> > > Is it as important for contributors?  If I understand it correctly,
> > > the idea of this change (a bunch of projects seem to be moving this
> > > way) is that the developers see exactly what they used to see and the
> > > contributors get a less spammy list and thus get more involved.
> >
>
> Commit diffs are not spam, IMO, nor are issue reports / comments.
> This is core to what is happening on a project.


I agree with Phil. And I don't buy that more people would get involved if
they didn't see the commit messages. How can they be properly involved if
they're not watching what's happening to the code and the issues?

--
Martin Cooper


> It also allows people to choose not only what they receive, but how.
> > Email isn't the only way to 'subscribe' to the lists, you can also get
> > the Atom feed from the ASF mail archives, or use a forum interface
> > like Nabble.
> >
> > (I'd keep dev@ for discussion only, and send wiki diffs to commits@.
> > While we're on the subject, will there be CI server notifications?)
> >
>
> Probably yet another little list, if we chase this to logical
> conclusion.  One problem that I have with splitting things is that
> Jira comments *are* discussion, as are commit log messages and
> responses to these, etc. I don't like the idea of splitting these.
>
> As far as the arguments about getting new contributors in, I would
> like to hear from them.
>
> Phil
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: [hidden email]
> For additional commands, e-mail: [hidden email]
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Re: [all] Splitting the mailing list

Simon Kitching
In reply to this post by Phil Steitz
On Thu, 2006-07-20 at 20:34 -0700, Martin Cooper wrote:

> On 7/20/06, Phil Steitz <[hidden email]> wrote:
> >
> > On 7/20/06, Wendy Smoak <[hidden email]> wrote:
> > > On 7/20/06, Henri Yandell <[hidden email]> wrote:
> > >
> > > > Is it as important for contributors?  If I understand it correctly,
> > > > the idea of this change (a bunch of projects seem to be moving this
> > > > way) is that the developers see exactly what they used to see and the
> > > > contributors get a less spammy list and thus get more involved.
> > >
> >
> > Commit diffs are not spam, IMO, nor are issue reports / comments.
> > This is core to what is happening on a project.
>
>
> I agree with Phil. And I don't buy that more people would get involved if
> they didn't see the commit messages. How can they be properly involved if
> they're not watching what's happening to the code and the issues?

I'm also -0 on splitting the list into dev/commit (though open to
persuasion).

As noted, JIRA comments are as valid as emails for discussing an issue.
And I think any contributor to a project (someone who is submitting
patches) needs to keep an eye on patches even if not "a committer", to
see if their area of interest is being modified and how.

Allowing people to subscribe to (mail+jira+commit) for a specific
commons component seems to be to me what casual contributors would
really need, but we have no easy way to do that without causing major
damage to the whole commons community.

> > As far as the arguments about getting new contributors in, I would
> > like to hear from them.

That's an excellent idea..

Brett, what's the feedback on the split of the Maven list? Why do you
think it was a good idea?

Cheers,

Simon



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Re: [all] Splitting the mailing list

Henri Yandell
On 7/20/06, Simon Kitching <[hidden email]> wrote:

> > > As far as the arguments about getting new contributors in, I would
> > > like to hear from them.
>
> That's an excellent idea..

Yup. James Ring is one of those, so his reply was quite a surprise (for me).

Maybe a better email would be:

Contributors - we want to give you commit access and get you involved
- what can we do to help get you involved and active so we can then
say "yes, this person is committed".

Apache Directory are experimenting with having committers mentoring
new contributors into the project having recognised that they're
seeing things start to slow down. Not too sure of that, we're all
sitting down and doing this at the end of the day because it's fun.
Then again, this isn't much different from the Google Summer of Code
concept, except that that's only open to students.

My biggest concern is with code direction. Andrew Shirley has done
lots of good work with CLI on the issue tracker (and James too), but
until we had some kind of direction for CLI I was very hesitant to be
nominating someone to become a committer and then having them just be
stuck on their own.

A later concern is what will happen to commons-dev as we get even more
moving. Let's say we double the number of active committers - will
commons-dev start to feel cramped again?

I'm also concerned with the noise that a release creates. If we want
to release often (and not the multiple year releases we have tended
towards), can we do that without creating noise that drowns out the
code? Maybe having nightly builds is good enough for the release
often. Commons libraries are at the heart of projects dependency lists
so who wants to have to update all the time.

Back to coding or releasing or something :)

Hen

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Re: [all] Splitting the mailing list

Luc Maisonobe
In reply to this post by Phil Steitz
Phil Steitz <[hidden email]> wrote:


> Commit diffs are not spam, IMO, nor are issue reports / comments.
> This is core to what is happening on a project.

This is true for someone deeply involved in the project life, but may be
overwhelming for someone who only wants to keep an eye on the discussions about
future directions and new features.

> As far as the arguments about getting new contributors in, I would
> like to hear from them.

I am just stepping in now. As I really want to contribute and to invest my time
in this project, I am interested in the commits and Jira stuff. The fact de dev
list is shared among many projects is more an issue to me than the level of
messages that are exchanged on the list for a given project. However, I think
this choice has been made for good reasons and will not complain about it. I
take the lists as they are.

This is only a personal opinion, from someone who is both new to the project and
wants to get involved. Many other use cases for the lists are possible.

Luc

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RE: [all] Splitting the mailing list

Jörg Schaible-2
In reply to this post by Henri Yandell

Henri Yandell wrote on Friday, July 21, 2006 2:16 AM:

> A while back Maven moved to having the commits and issues on different
> mailing lists and it seems to be going well.
>
> So I'd like to suggest:
>
> [hidden email]  - reply-to to commons-dev
> [hidden email]     - reply-to to commons-dev

+1 (although I am not sure if we really need two lists for auto generated stuff)

> I think the wiki notifications should stay on the dev list as they're
> relatively low in number and they don't require any kind of restricted
> authentication to get involved with. Any contributor can hop in and
> fix a spelling mistake.

Even this ones I would send to commits or issues.

> The obvious worry is over new committers not subscribing to those
> lists. Firstly we can obviously make a point of mentioning that to new
> committers - but mostly I think the number of Re: svn commit and Re:
> [JIRA] emails that will appear will make them wonder what they're
> missing.

Well, I would expect committers to be subscribed to all of them.

> Another advantage of the above just happened on the Tomcat list. A
> mistake by a committer caused 2700 svn commits to be sent out (to
> nearly 1000 subscribers). The ASF mail server took a good many hours
> to recover - most of the day I think. So both those kind of errors,
> and the large JIRA reorgs we've been doing would be hitting less
> people.
>
> One question:
>
> Do we automatically subscribe everyone on dev@ and let them
> unsubscribe. Or start the lists empty.

Subscribe all.

Main reason for my vote is not the reduced amount of mail, but the much easier searchability of the archives. I've sometimes already given up to dig a mail, just because the hit list was cluttered with this automated stuff. Since JIRA also has good search capabilities the notifications don't have to stay at dev@.

- Jörg

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Re: [all] Splitting the mailing list

jochen-2
Henri Yandell wrote on Friday, July 21, 2006 2:16 AM:

> A while back Maven moved to having the commits and issues on different
> mailing lists and it seems to be going well.
>
> So I'd like to suggest:
>
> [hidden email]  - reply-to to commons-dev
> [hidden email]     - reply-to to commons-dev

That made of course sense for Maven. In the special case of
commons-dev however, I wonder whether it wouldn't make sense to split
out the more active projects instead?

Jochen

--
Whenever you find yourself on the side of the
majority, it is time to pause and reflect.
(Mark Twain)

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Re: [all] Splitting the mailing list

Dennis Lundberg-2
In reply to this post by Brett Porter-2
+1

--
Dennis Lundberg

Brett Porter wrote:

> +1 to this proposal. I'd also suggest starting the list with the full
> list of subscribers so nobody is immediately impacted.
>
> - Brett
>
>
> On 21/07/2006 10:15 AM, Henri Yandell wrote:
>> A while back Maven moved to having the commits and issues on different
>> mailing lists and it seems to be going well.
>>
>> So I'd like to suggest:
>>
>> [hidden email]  - reply-to to commons-dev
>> [hidden email]     - reply-to to commons-dev
>>
>> I think the wiki notifications should stay on the dev list as they're
>> relatively low in number and they don't require any kind of restricted
>> authentication to get involved with. Any contributor can hop in and
>> fix a spelling mistake.
>>
>> The obvious worry is over new committers not subscribing to those
>> lists. Firstly we can obviously make a point of mentioning that to new
>> committers - but mostly I think the number of Re: svn commit and Re:
>> [JIRA] emails that will appear will make them wonder what they're
>> missing.
>>
>> Another advantage of the above just happened on the Tomcat list. A
>> mistake by a committer caused 2700 svn commits to be sent out (to
>> nearly 1000 subscribers). The ASF mail server took a good many hours
>> to recover - most of the day I think. So both those kind of errors,
>> and the large JIRA reorgs we've been doing would be hitting less
>> people.
>>
>> One question:
>>
>> Do we automatically subscribe everyone on dev@ and let them
>> unsubscribe. Or start the lists empty.
>>
>> Hen
>>
>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: [hidden email]
>> For additional commands, e-mail: [hidden email]
>>
>
>


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Re: [all] Splitting the mailing list

Martin van den Bemt
In reply to this post by Henri Yandell
+1 on both.. Although I would also like to see the wiki notifications moved to the commits list.
The only thing that needs to be done to actually make this work, is to actually advertise the
mailinglist splitup. I missed the fact at some projects (don't remember which ones though), there
was a seperate commit / jira list.
So we need to adjust the docs of all projects, the mail2 page and regenerate the site when we do the
move.
I am in favour of autosubscribing everyone who is currently on dev.

Mvgr,
Martin


Henri Yandell wrote:

> A while back Maven moved to having the commits and issues on different
> mailing lists and it seems to be going well.
>
> So I'd like to suggest:
>
> [hidden email]  - reply-to to commons-dev
> [hidden email]     - reply-to to commons-dev
>
> I think the wiki notifications should stay on the dev list as they're
> relatively low in number and they don't require any kind of restricted
> authentication to get involved with. Any contributor can hop in and
> fix a spelling mistake.
>
> The obvious worry is over new committers not subscribing to those
> lists. Firstly we can obviously make a point of mentioning that to new
> committers - but mostly I think the number of Re: svn commit and Re:
> [JIRA] emails that will appear will make them wonder what they're
> missing.
>
> Another advantage of the above just happened on the Tomcat list. A
> mistake by a committer caused 2700 svn commits to be sent out (to
> nearly 1000 subscribers). The ASF mail server took a good many hours
> to recover - most of the day I think. So both those kind of errors,
> and the large JIRA reorgs we've been doing would be hitting less
> people.
>
> One question:
>
> Do we automatically subscribe everyone on dev@ and let them
> unsubscribe. Or start the lists empty.
>
> Hen
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: [hidden email]
> For additional commands, e-mail: [hidden email]
>
>
>

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Re: [all] Splitting the mailing list

Brett Porter-2
In reply to this post by Simon Kitching
On 21/07/2006 2:08 PM, Simon Kitching wrote:
> Allowing people to subscribe to (mail+jira+commit) for a specific
> commons component seems to be to me what casual contributors would
> really need, but we have no easy way to do that without causing major
> damage to the whole commons community.

Yes, that's really the other alternative. But I think they need to be
larger, active components or groups of components, otherwise you'll end
up with ghost town lists, insufficient oversight and lack of interest in
the common infrastructure which is what you are referring to.

FWIW, we do this too - maven-scm, maven-continuum, maven-wagon,
maven-doxia all have separate dev, user and commits lists (but they all
share the issues list).

>
>>> As far as the arguments about getting new contributors in, I would
>>> like to hear from them.
>
> That's an excellent idea..

Yep, best to listen to them. This is really who the proposal is for, I
agree that the committers would want to be on all 3.

I don't buy the argument that it is necessary to follow all the jira
issues and commits to participate in development, though.

>
> Brett, what's the feedback on the split of the Maven list? Why do you
> think it was a good idea?

It was very positive, and many people who weren't committers were keen
to see it go further than originally proposed.

One of the motivations for me was looking at the graphs on Ken's page to
see how many people unsubscribed from the dev@ list when there was a big
run of commit or jira mails. That's losing people that might have had
something to say if they only had to go through a less annoying amount
of mail. We get regular feedback on there from people I've never heard
from before.

The separation of archives is a big win, especially as things like
nabble have become more popular as a way to casually participate in lists.

The dev@ list is definitely more active than it used to be, but I don't
know how much of that is attributable to the split vs. normal growth (it
seems to be on the same upward trend it already was). However, it
certainly hasn't hurt. I haven't seen any evidence of jira issues or
code getting overlooked.

But, YMMV - the Maven lists are significantly busier than commons.

HTH,
Brett


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Re: [all] Splitting the mailing list

Stephen Colebourne
In reply to this post by Henri Yandell
This proposal has merit, in that it allows the main dev list room to
breathe for discussion, which should be its primary purpose. It also has
a very clear benefit in mail archive - in fact its really pretty
essential for that.

Some of the negative respones have focussed around what the needs of
committers are, but I'd argue that we should be focussing on the needs
of the 'users' - ie those who want to follow commons discussions, maybe
chip in occasionaly, but are not interested in contributing/commiting.
An excess of what can feel like spam will put some of these people off.

The proposal suggests two new lists, but I'd argue thats unecessary. One
for svn, jira, wiki and gump is all thats needed. Basically everythng
that is non-discussion and *might* be regarded as 'spam'.

So, +1 to one new list, commons-auto? commons-build?, commons-gen?

Or perhaps this should be a jakarta-wide list if we are one-jakarta ;-)

Stephen


Henri Yandell wrote:

> A while back Maven moved to having the commits and issues on different
> mailing lists and it seems to be going well.
>
> So I'd like to suggest:
>
> [hidden email]  - reply-to to commons-dev
> [hidden email]     - reply-to to commons-dev
>
> I think the wiki notifications should stay on the dev list as they're
> relatively low in number and they don't require any kind of restricted
> authentication to get involved with. Any contributor can hop in and
> fix a spelling mistake.
>
> The obvious worry is over new committers not subscribing to those
> lists. Firstly we can obviously make a point of mentioning that to new
> committers - but mostly I think the number of Re: svn commit and Re:
> [JIRA] emails that will appear will make them wonder what they're
> missing.
>
> Another advantage of the above just happened on the Tomcat list. A
> mistake by a committer caused 2700 svn commits to be sent out (to
> nearly 1000 subscribers). The ASF mail server took a good many hours
> to recover - most of the day I think. So both those kind of errors,
> and the large JIRA reorgs we've been doing would be hitting less
> people.
>
> One question:
>
> Do we automatically subscribe everyone on dev@ and let them
> unsubscribe. Or start the lists empty.
>
> Hen
>
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Re: [all] Splitting the mailing list

Henri Yandell
In reply to this post by Brett Porter-2
On 7/22/06, Brett Porter <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> But, YMMV - the Maven lists are significantly busier than commons.

That wasn't my feeling - we're not very busy at the moment but
generally I thought commons-dev was one of the busier lists at the
ASF.

Comparing:

http://mail-archives.apache.org/mod_mbox/jakarta-commons-dev/

and

http://mail-archives.apache.org/mod_mbox/maven-dev/

Maven-dev hit real heights with 4000 emails a month at the end of 2005
- it's now down to 600 or so. An active Commons back in 2003/2004 was
hitting 2000, though it's interesting to note we're still heading
towards the 2000s whenever we get active (and I don't think we've
really got that active yet).

My thinking is that over the next 6 months we should be doubling the
number of active committers - I need to do some svn logs but I suspect
there are 5->10 currently and it used to be 10-20. It'd also be
interesting to analyse what our numbers would drop to if we split
lists.

Hen

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Re: [all] Splitting the mailing list

Henri Yandell
In reply to this post by Stephen Colebourne
On 7/22/06, Stephen Colebourne <[hidden email]> wrote:
> The proposal suggests two new lists, but I'd argue thats unecessary. One
> for svn, jira, wiki and gump is all thats needed. Basically everythng
> that is non-discussion and *might* be regarded as 'spam'.
>
> So, +1 to one new list, commons-auto? commons-build?, commons-gen?
>
> Or perhaps this should be a jakarta-wide list if we are one-jakarta ;-)

I'm not tied to multiple lists - so one list is fine by me.

Probably worth asking the mail admins whether it would be
commons-commits (to match most others) or commons-auto (because we're
overloading the semantics).

Hen

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