[logging] RC on ibiblio ?

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[logging] RC on ibiblio ?

Nicolas De Loof-3

Hello,

Can someone upload commons-logging RC on Maven2 ibiblio repository ?
It would be very cool to also upload a POM and the sources jar...

Nico.

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Re: [logging] RC on ibiblio ?

Simon Kitching
On Wed, 2006-04-05 at 10:05 +0200, Nicolas De Loof wrote:
> Hello,
>
> Can someone upload commons-logging RC on Maven2 ibiblio repository ?
> It would be very cool to also upload a POM and the sources jar...

That would be a good idea.

We should also provide a link on the downloads page or something
similar. Just today a work colleague was looking for a later version
than 1.0.4 in order to get log4j TRACE support. I told him there was an
RC out, but there was just no way for him to locate it...


By the way, there is still an outstanding discussion about whether to
add JDK14Logger back into the commons-logging-api.jar file. It was there
in the previous release. It probably shouldn't be; it's not logical.
However it does no harm as far as I can see, and the point was made that
because the current RC doesn't include it, it isn't a drop-in
replacement.

So I'm +1 on adding JDK14Logger back to the api jar, then cutting a new
RC and uploading to ibiblio + linking from useful places.

Alternatively, we could just make the above change then hold a release
vote. I think we've given this RC enough time for feedback.

Cheers,

Simon


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Re: [logging] RC on ibiblio ?

robert burrell donkin
On Wed, 2006-04-05 at 20:41 +1200, Simon Kitching wrote:
> On Wed, 2006-04-05 at 10:05 +0200, Nicolas De Loof wrote:
> > Hello,
> >
> > Can someone upload commons-logging RC on Maven2 ibiblio repository ?
> > It would be very cool to also upload a POM and the sources jar...
>
> That would be a good idea.

sadly policy dictates that we can't upload release candidates to ibiblio

> We should also provide a link on the downloads page or something
> similar. Just today a work colleague was looking for a later version
> than 1.0.4 in order to get log4j TRACE support. I told him there was an
> RC out, but there was just no way for him to locate it...

i've been at work off list and things look good. i think i'm just about
ready to cut the final release candidate this weekend and try a release
vote.

> By the way, there is still an outstanding discussion about whether to
> add JDK14Logger back into the commons-logging-api.jar file. It was there
> in the previous release. It probably shouldn't be; it's not logical.
> However it does no harm as far as I can see, and the point was made that
> because the current RC doesn't include it, it isn't a drop-in
> replacement.

yep

i agree that it's not logical but ATM it would be good to ship a fixed
replacement. it's likely that tomcat 6 will ship a JCL library created
by costin which is static bound to java.util.logging.

> So I'm +1 on adding JDK14Logger back to the api jar, then cutting a new
> RC and uploading to ibiblio + linking from useful places.
>
> Alternatively, we could just make the above change then hold a release
> vote. I think we've given this RC enough time for feedback.

i've got the feedback i wanted now (off list) so i think the time is
right to cut another release candidate and hold a release vote next
week. i'll probably give the vote two weeks this time.

- robert


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Re: [logging] RC on ibiblio ?

Carlos Sanchez-4
On 4/5/06, robert burrell donkin <[hidden email]> wrote:
> sadly policy dictates that we can't upload release candidates to ibiblio

AFAIK is PMC decision what gets uploaded

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Re: [logging] RC on ibiblio ?

Martin Cooper-3
In reply to this post by robert burrell donkin
On 4/5/06, robert burrell donkin <[hidden email]>
wrote:

>
> On Wed, 2006-04-05 at 20:41 +1200, Simon Kitching wrote:
> > On Wed, 2006-04-05 at 10:05 +0200, Nicolas De Loof wrote:
> > > Hello,
> > >
> > > Can someone upload commons-logging RC on Maven2 ibiblio repository ?
> > > It would be very cool to also upload a POM and the sources jar...
> >
> > That would be a good idea.
>
> sadly policy dictates that we can't upload release candidates to ibiblio


Right. But is there any reason we couldn't create a Maven 2 parallel to the
Maven 1 repo we have at http://cvs.apache.org/repository/? We could deploy
RCs there.

--
Martin Cooper


> We should also provide a link on the downloads page or something
> > similar. Just today a work colleague was looking for a later version
> > than 1.0.4 in order to get log4j TRACE support. I told him there was an
> > RC out, but there was just no way for him to locate it...
>
> i've been at work off list and things look good. i think i'm just about
> ready to cut the final release candidate this weekend and try a release
> vote.
>
> > By the way, there is still an outstanding discussion about whether to
> > add JDK14Logger back into the commons-logging-api.jar file. It was there
> > in the previous release. It probably shouldn't be; it's not logical.
> > However it does no harm as far as I can see, and the point was made that
> > because the current RC doesn't include it, it isn't a drop-in
> > replacement.
>
> yep
>
> i agree that it's not logical but ATM it would be good to ship a fixed
> replacement. it's likely that tomcat 6 will ship a JCL library created
> by costin which is static bound to java.util.logging.
>
> > So I'm +1 on adding JDK14Logger back to the api jar, then cutting a new
> > RC and uploading to ibiblio + linking from useful places.
> >
> > Alternatively, we could just make the above change then hold a release
> > vote. I think we've given this RC enough time for feedback.
>
> i've got the feedback i wanted now (off list) so i think the time is
> right to cut another release candidate and hold a release vote next
> week. i'll probably give the vote two weeks this time.
>
> - robert
>
>
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Re: [logging] RC on ibiblio ?

Henri Yandell
In reply to this post by Carlos Sanchez-4
On 4/5/06, Carlos Sanchez <[hidden email]> wrote:
> On 4/5/06, robert burrell donkin <[hidden email]> wrote:
> > sadly policy dictates that we can't upload release candidates to ibiblio
>
> AFAIK is PMC decision what gets uploaded

Yep. You can't upload snapshots to ibiblio - RC is a vague grey area
and I think it comes down to the lifetime expected of it. HttpClient
has had RC candidates out there for many months at a time (and thus on
ibiblio), with people dependent on them in production etc. Most other
Commons components just use 'RC' to mean a test-build for the real
thing; should never appear in a user product.

So - what does this RC mean? Is there a better name (so as not to
confuse with the general RC usage)?

Hen

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Re: [logging] RC on ibiblio ?

Wendy Smoak
In reply to this post by Martin Cooper-3
On 4/5/06, Martin Cooper <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Right. But is there any reason we couldn't create a Maven 2 parallel to the
> Maven 1 repo we have at http://cvs.apache.org/repository/? We could deploy
> RCs there.

It's already there:
   http://cvs.apache.org/maven-snapshot-repository

You can use 'mvn deploy:deploy-file' to deploy the RC, and Maven will
generate a pom for it.  That should be fine since Logging has no
required dependencies.

--
Wendy

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Re: [logging] RC on ibiblio ?

Martin Cooper-3
In reply to this post by Carlos Sanchez-4
On 4/5/06, Carlos Sanchez <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> On 4/5/06, robert burrell donkin <[hidden email]>
> wrote:
> > sadly policy dictates that we can't upload release candidates to ibiblio
>
> AFAIK is PMC decision what gets uploaded


No, this is bigger than any individual PMC. Only official releases can be
deployed outside of ASF infrastructure, meaning that RCs cannot be deployed
to ibiblio or made available via mirrors.

--
Martin Cooper


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Re: [logging] RC on ibiblio ?

Martin Cooper-3
In reply to this post by Wendy Smoak
On 4/5/06, Wendy Smoak <[hidden email]> wrote:

>
> On 4/5/06, Martin Cooper <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> > Right. But is there any reason we couldn't create a Maven 2 parallel to
> the
> > Maven 1 repo we have at http://cvs.apache.org/repository/? We could
> deploy
> > RCs there.
>
> It's already there:
>    http://cvs.apache.org/maven-snapshot-repository


Oh, that's what that is. ;-) The name threw me.

--
Martin Cooper


You can use 'mvn deploy:deploy-file' to deploy the RC, and Maven will

> generate a pom for it.  That should be fine since Logging has no
> required dependencies.
>
> --
> Wendy
>
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Re: [logging] RC on ibiblio ?

Henri Yandell
In reply to this post by Martin Cooper-3
On 4/5/06, Martin Cooper <[hidden email]> wrote:

> On 4/5/06, Carlos Sanchez <[hidden email]> wrote:
> >
> > On 4/5/06, robert burrell donkin <[hidden email]>
> > wrote:
> > > sadly policy dictates that we can't upload release candidates to ibiblio
> >
> > AFAIK is PMC decision what gets uploaded
>
>
> No, this is bigger than any individual PMC. Only official releases can be
> deployed outside of ASF infrastructure, meaning that RCs cannot be deployed
> to ibiblio or made available via mirrors.

+1.

From this I infer:

* If it goes in the maven release repo, it should be available as a
zip/tar.gz too.
* The PMC has to consider it to be an official release.

I think that a beta can be an official release - that's the decision a
PMC would be having to decide upon - but you can't be doing partial
releases (to maven repo only). There are lots of betas and alphas on
the mirrors.

Hen

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Re: [logging] RC on ibiblio ?

Nicolas De Loof-3
In reply to this post by Martin Cooper-3

I agree about NOT making non-final jars available on ibiblio (httpclient
beeing an exception)
So could the next RC be uploaded to
http://cvs.apache.org/maven-snapshot-repository/ ?

Please also consider using the new groupId recommandation for apache
commons-X : org.apache.commons.X

Martin Cooper a écrit :

> On 4/5/06, Wendy Smoak <[hidden email]> wrote:
>  
>> On 4/5/06, Martin Cooper <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>
>>    
>>> Right. But is there any reason we couldn't create a Maven 2 parallel to
>>>      
>> the
>>    
>>> Maven 1 repo we have at http://cvs.apache.org/repository/? We could
>>>      
>> deploy
>>    
>>> RCs there.
>>>      
>> It's already there:
>>    http://cvs.apache.org/maven-snapshot-repository
>>    
>
>
> Oh, that's what that is. ;-) The name threw me.
>
> --
> Martin Cooper
>
>
> You can use 'mvn deploy:deploy-file' to deploy the RC, and Maven will
>  
>> generate a pom for it.  That should be fine since Logging has no
>> required dependencies.
>>
>> --
>> Wendy
>>
>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: [hidden email]
>> For additional commands, e-mail: [hidden email]
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>>
>>    
>
>  

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[all] change group id? [WAS Re: [logging] RC on ibiblio ?]

robert burrell donkin
On Thu, 2006-04-06 at 08:51 +0200, Nicolas De Loof wrote:
> I agree about NOT making non-final jars available on ibiblio (httpclient
> beeing an exception)
> So could the next RC be uploaded to
> http://cvs.apache.org/maven-snapshot-repository/ ?
>
> Please also consider using the new groupId recommandation for apache
> commons-X : org.apache.commons.X

should we make this change for the whole of the commons?

how much hassle would this change be for downstream consumers?

- robert



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Re: [all] change group id? [WAS Re: [logging] RC on ibiblio ?]

Dennis Lundberg-2
robert burrell donkin wrote:

> On Thu, 2006-04-06 at 08:51 +0200, Nicolas De Loof wrote:
>> I agree about NOT making non-final jars available on ibiblio (httpclient
>> beeing an exception)
>> So could the next RC be uploaded to
>> http://cvs.apache.org/maven-snapshot-repository/ ?
>>
>> Please also consider using the new groupId recommandation for apache
>> commons-X : org.apache.commons.X
>
> should we make this change for the whole of the commons?

I think we should do it, but I remember that Henri had some reservations
when this was discussed last time. It had something to do with the local
Apache repo and where Jakarta artifact should be in that repo. Perhaps
he can fill us in on that situation.

If it is decided that this should be done I volunteer to help out with
the move.

> how much hassle would this change be for downstream consumers?

Not much. When a downstream consumer wants to upgrade a Jakarta Commons
dependency they will have to change groupId as well as version, instead
of just the version.

This move has already been made for several other (Apache) jars and is
the "right way" to go. Have a look at
   http://www.ibiblio.org/maven2/org/apache/
to see the current status.


--
Dennis Lundberg

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Re: [all] change group id? [WAS Re: [logging] RC on ibiblio ?]

Martin Cooper-3
In reply to this post by robert burrell donkin
On 5/13/06, robert burrell donkin <[hidden email]>
wrote:

>
> On Thu, 2006-04-06 at 08:51 +0200, Nicolas De Loof wrote:
> > I agree about NOT making non-final jars available on ibiblio (httpclient
> > beeing an exception)
> > So could the next RC be uploaded to
> > http://cvs.apache.org/maven-snapshot-repository/ ?
> >
> > Please also consider using the new groupId recommandation for apache
> > commons-X : org.apache.commons.X
>
> should we make this change for the whole of the commons?


I would be in favour of that. The sooner all ASF projects use a consistent
groupId scheme, the better.

how much hassle would this change be for downstream consumers?


Virtually none, as long as we make the change obvious, e.g. by including the
groupId and artifactId in release announcements and download pages, or
somewhere of that sort.

--
Martin Cooper


- robert
>
>
>
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Re: [all] change group id? [WAS Re: [logging] RC on ibiblio ?]

Henri Yandell
In reply to this post by Dennis Lundberg-2
On 5/13/06, Dennis Lundberg <[hidden email]> wrote:

> robert burrell donkin wrote:
> > On Thu, 2006-04-06 at 08:51 +0200, Nicolas De Loof wrote:
> >> I agree about NOT making non-final jars available on ibiblio (httpclient
> >> beeing an exception)
> >> So could the next RC be uploaded to
> >> http://cvs.apache.org/maven-snapshot-repository/ ?
> >>
> >> Please also consider using the new groupId recommandation for apache
> >> commons-X : org.apache.commons.X
> >
> > should we make this change for the whole of the commons?
>
> I think we should do it, but I remember that Henri had some reservations
> when this was discussed last time. It had something to do with the local
> Apache repo and where Jakarta artifact should be in that repo. Perhaps
> he can fill us in on that situation.


+1 to making the change.

My only question is whether we use Java package naming
(org.apache.commons) or Apache structure (org.apache.jakarta or
org.apache.jakarta.commons).  I feel that we should be using ACL's on
the maven repository on minotaur such that only a PMC can release
their code onto the maven repository - but there hasn't seemed much
interest in trying to do such.

So I'm fine with org.apache.commons.

Hen

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Re: [all] change group id? [WAS Re: [logging] RC on ibiblio ?]

Simon Kitching
In reply to this post by robert burrell donkin
On Sat, 2006-05-13 at 11:30 -0700, Martin Cooper wrote:

> On 5/13/06, robert burrell donkin <[hidden email]>
> wrote:
> >
> > On Thu, 2006-04-06 at 08:51 +0200, Nicolas De Loof wrote:
> > > I agree about NOT making non-final jars available on ibiblio (httpclient
> > > beeing an exception)
> > > So could the next RC be uploaded to
> > > http://cvs.apache.org/maven-snapshot-repository/ ?
> > >
> > > Please also consider using the new groupId recommandation for apache
> > > commons-X : org.apache.commons.X
> >
> > should we make this change for the whole of the commons?
>
>
> I would be in favour of that. The sooner all ASF projects use a consistent
> groupId scheme, the better.
>
> how much hassle would this change be for downstream consumers?
>
>
> Virtually none, as long as we make the change obvious, e.g. by including the
> groupId and artifactId in release announcements and download pages, or
> somewhere of that sort.

What happens if someone has a project that has the following
dependencies:

  project depends on A, B
  A depends on group=commons-lang, artifact=commons-lang
  B depends on group=org.apache.commons.lang, artifact=commons-lang

Is maven smart enough to avoid putting lang in the dependencies twice?

There is a special POM entry that can indicate a "relocation" of the
target. I don't know the details of how this works though.

http://maven.apache.org/ref/current/maven-model/maven.html#class_relocation

In general, though, I'm in favour of the move to a properly structured
group-id. As maven gets more popular (the repo gains more entries), the
existing flattish structure becomes harder to manage. And from the
volume of messages on the maven lists, its popularity is growing fast..

Regards,

Simon


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Re: [all] change group id? [WAS Re: [logging] RC on ibiblio ?]

Brett Porter-2
In Maven 2.1, it will be able to correlate between the two, but
currently they'll end up in there twice.

I'd suggest when a release first does this, it's going to need to move
all the old versions to the new group ID, and add a relocation for the
original group IDs to get it to work, as you've indicated here. It would
be a good idea to do a test on this first, of course.

- Brett

Simon Kitching wrote:

> On Sat, 2006-05-13 at 11:30 -0700, Martin Cooper wrote:
>> On 5/13/06, robert burrell donkin <[hidden email]>
>> wrote:
>>> On Thu, 2006-04-06 at 08:51 +0200, Nicolas De Loof wrote:
>>>> I agree about NOT making non-final jars available on ibiblio (httpclient
>>>> beeing an exception)
>>>> So could the next RC be uploaded to
>>>> http://cvs.apache.org/maven-snapshot-repository/ ?
>>>>
>>>> Please also consider using the new groupId recommandation for apache
>>>> commons-X : org.apache.commons.X
>>> should we make this change for the whole of the commons?
>>
>> I would be in favour of that. The sooner all ASF projects use a consistent
>> groupId scheme, the better.
>>
>> how much hassle would this change be for downstream consumers?
>>
>>
>> Virtually none, as long as we make the change obvious, e.g. by including the
>> groupId and artifactId in release announcements and download pages, or
>> somewhere of that sort.
>
> What happens if someone has a project that has the following
> dependencies:
>
>   project depends on A, B
>   A depends on group=commons-lang, artifact=commons-lang
>   B depends on group=org.apache.commons.lang, artifact=commons-lang
>
> Is maven smart enough to avoid putting lang in the dependencies twice?
>
> There is a special POM entry that can indicate a "relocation" of the
> target. I don't know the details of how this works though.
>
> http://maven.apache.org/ref/current/maven-model/maven.html#class_relocation
>
> In general, though, I'm in favour of the move to a properly structured
> group-id. As maven gets more popular (the repo gains more entries), the
> existing flattish structure becomes harder to manage. And from the
> volume of messages on the maven lists, its popularity is growing fast..
>
> Regards,
>
> Simon
>
>
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Re: [all] change group id? [WAS Re: [logging] RC on ibiblio ?]

robert burrell donkin
In reply to this post by Henri Yandell
On Sat, 2006-05-13 at 15:21 -0700, Henri Yandell wrote:#

<snip>

> I feel that we should be using ACL's on
> the maven repository on minotaur such that only a PMC can release
> their code onto the maven repository - but there hasn't seemed much
> interest in trying to do such.

IMHO bit pointless ATM. need to remove shell from the distribution
machine before changes like this are worthwhile. but definitely worth
bringing up again in a month or two.

i've been thinking about using subversion to manage distributions. in
addition to better  ACLs, this would allow scripts to be run that could
verify signatures.

be a good thing to move to henk's system of key management as well.

- robert



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Re: [all] change group id? [WAS Re: [logging] RC on ibiblio ?]

Phil Steitz
On 5/14/06, robert burrell donkin <[hidden email]> wrote:

> On Sat, 2006-05-13 at 15:21 -0700, Henri Yandell wrote:#
>
> <snip>
>
> > I feel that we should be using ACL's on
> > the maven repository on minotaur such that only a PMC can release
> > their code onto the maven repository - but there hasn't seemed much
> > interest in trying to do such.
>
> IMHO bit pointless ATM. need to remove shell from the distribution
> machine before changes like this are worthwhile. but definitely worth
> bringing up again in a month or two.
>
> i've been thinking about using subversion to manage distributions. in
> addition to better  ACLs, this would allow scripts to be run that could
> verify signatures.
>
> be a good thing to move to henk's system of key management as well.

What is that system?

Phil

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Re: [all] change group id? [WAS Re: [logging] RC on ibiblio ?]

robert burrell donkin
On Sun, 2006-05-14 at 12:32 -0700, Phil Steitz wrote:

> On 5/14/06, robert burrell donkin <[hidden email]> wrote:
> > On Sat, 2006-05-13 at 15:21 -0700, Henri Yandell wrote:#
> >
> > <snip>
> >
> > > I feel that we should be using ACL's on
> > > the maven repository on minotaur such that only a PMC can release
> > > their code onto the maven repository - but there hasn't seemed much
> > > interest in trying to do such.
> >
> > IMHO bit pointless ATM. need to remove shell from the distribution
> > machine before changes like this are worthwhile. but definitely worth
> > bringing up again in a month or two.
> >
> > i've been thinking about using subversion to manage distributions. in
> > addition to better  ACLs, this would allow scripts to be run that could
> > verify signatures.
> >
> > be a good thing to move to henk's system of key management as well.
>
> What is that system?

many months ago, henk penning presented a system for ASF OpenPGP key
management but i can't find a reference right now. with a bit of luck i
might be able to catch up with henk at apachecon europe...

- robert



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