[resources] 1.0.0 Release Candidate 1

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[resources] 1.0.0 Release Candidate 1

Niall Pemberton-2
Release Candidate 1 of Resources 1.0.0 is now available for download at:
http://people.apache.org/~niallp/commons-resources/

The web site has been refreshed with the latest changes:
http://jakarta.apache.org/commons/resources/

All feedback on this release candidate build is welcome.

Niall



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Re: [resources] 1.0.0 Release Candidate 1

Niall Pemberton
A couple of questions I had on the resources API:

1) I was wondering why TimeZone is include in the Resources's content
read methods? Is there a use case, for example, for giving west coast
Americans a different message to east coast?

2) A couple of possible suggestions for inclusion in the Message interface:
2.1) Struts has "non resource" messages where the message contains the
actual message text, rather than a key to a resource - is it worth
adding an "isResource()" method to Message?
2.2) Its been requested in Struts that the Message object include the
name of the Resources it comes from - that way Messages can contain
messages from multiple resources. Is it worth adding a
"getResourcesName()" method to the Message interface?

Niall


On 11/27/05, Niall Pemberton <[hidden email]> wrote:
> Release Candidate 1 of Resources 1.0.0 is now available for download at:
> http://people.apache.org/~niallp/commons-resources/
>
> The web site has been refreshed with the latest changes:
> http://jakarta.apache.org/commons/resources/
>
> All feedback on this release candidate build is welcome.
>
> Niall

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Re: [resources] 1.0.0 Release Candidate 1

craigmcc
On 11/27/05, Niall Pemberton <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> A couple of questions I had on the resources API:
>
> 1) I was wondering why TimeZone is include in the Resources's content
> read methods? Is there a use case, for example, for giving west coast
> Americans a different message to east coast?


Some of the format options for displaying times take a time zone parameter
(so that it can be included in the emitted string).  Simply pass null if it
doesn't matter to you.

2) A couple of possible suggestions for inclusion in the Message interface:
> 2.1) Struts has "non resource" messages where the message contains the
> actual message text, rather than a key to a resource - is it worth
> adding an "isResource()" method to Message?


I guess I'm not seeing the difference ... "resources" in the name of the
package was intended to support the retrieval of localized string messages
or non-string resources that correspond to a key.

2.2) Its been requested in Struts that the Message object include the
> name of the Resources it comes from - that way Messages can contain
> messages from multiple resources. Is it worth adding a
> "getResourcesName()" method to the Message interface?


Why not have a property of type Resources so you can refer to it directly,
rather than inventing a new identifier?

It would also be worth thinking through whether one can easily configure
Resources instances with a dependency injection framework ...

Niall


Craig
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Re: [resources] 1.0.0 Release Candidate 1

Niall Pemberton
On 11/28/05, Craig McClanahan <[hidden email]> wrote:

> On 11/27/05, Niall Pemberton <[hidden email]> wrote:
> >
> > A couple of questions I had on the resources API:
> >
> > 1) I was wondering why TimeZone is include in the Resources's content
> > read methods? Is there a use case, for example, for giving west coast
> > Americans a different message to east coast?
>
>
> Some of the format options for displaying times take a time zone parameter
> (so that it can be included in the emitted string).  Simply pass null if it
> doesn't matter to you.

I don't see any valid formats specified in java.text.MessageFormat
that take a TimeZone. Thats slightly irrelevant though since AFAIK
Commons Resources doesn't deal anywhere with message formats. My
understanding that happends after the resource has been retrieved,
something like....

    String msgResource = myResources.getString("foo.key", locale, null);
    MessageFormat msgFormat = new MessageFormat(msgResource);
    msgFormat.setLocale(locale);
    String message = msgFormat.format(args);

Have I got the wrong end of the stick on this? Struts MessageResources
does do the MessageFormat bit, but Commons Resources doesn't.

> 2) A couple of possible suggestions for inclusion in the Message interface:
> > 2.1) Struts has "non resource" messages where the message contains the
> > actual message text, rather than a key to a resource - is it worth
> > adding an "isResource()" method to Message?
>
>
> I guess I'm not seeing the difference ... "resources" in the name of the
> package was intended to support the retrieval of localized string messages
> or non-string resources that correspond to a key.

Yes I agree it seems a strange suggestion but it would mean that
systems/software that allowed either resource or non-resource messages
to use Commons Resources Message/MessagesList types for all their
messages and not need something different for non-resource messages.

> 2.2) Its been requested in Struts that the Message object include the
> > name of the Resources it comes from - that way Messages can contain
> > messages from multiple resources. Is it worth adding a
> > "getResourcesName()" method to the Message interface?
>
>
> Why not have a property of type Resources so you can refer to it directly,
> rather than inventing a new identifier?
>
> It would also be worth thinking through whether one can easily configure
> Resources instances with a dependency injection framework ...

I wasn't thinking of inventing a new indentifier - just using the
existing one in Resources (i,e. its name). I think the main reason for
not injecting a Resources instance would be that it would get
serialized with every Message instance.
Additionally though IMO it would be a negative requirement to have to
get hold of the Resources when creating a message. In Struts terms,
the developer creates a MessageList and throws it back to Struts to
resolve them and doesn't have to worry about how to get hold of
Resources.

> Niall
>
>
> Craig
>
>

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Re: [resources] 1.0.0 Release Candidate 1

Christian Meder
On Mon, 2005-11-28 at 03:00 +0000, Niall Pemberton wrote:

> On 11/28/05, Craig McClanahan <[hidden email]> wrote:
> > On 11/27/05, Niall Pemberton <[hidden email]> wrote:
> > >
> > > A couple of questions I had on the resources API:
> > >
> > > 1) I was wondering why TimeZone is include in the Resources's content
> > > read methods? Is there a use case, for example, for giving west coast
> > > Americans a different message to east coast?
> >
> >
> > Some of the format options for displaying times take a time zone parameter
> > (so that it can be included in the emitted string).  Simply pass null if it
> > doesn't matter to you.
>
> I don't see any valid formats specified in java.text.MessageFormat
> that take a TimeZone. Thats slightly irrelevant though since AFAIK
> Commons Resources doesn't deal anywhere with message formats. My
> understanding that happends after the resource has been retrieved,
> something like....
>
>     String msgResource = myResources.getString("foo.key", locale, null);
>     MessageFormat msgFormat = new MessageFormat(msgResource);
>     msgFormat.setLocale(locale);
>     String message = msgFormat.format(args);
>
> Have I got the wrong end of the stick on this? Struts MessageResources
> does do the MessageFormat bit, but Commons Resources doesn't.

Actually I just nuked my reply (still stuck on my laptop) which
reiterated my concern from my mail a couple of days that
MessageResources and the MessageFormat stuff is missing like you did.
But I guess I found it: it's in Messages.

So I guess it should be more along the line:

Messages myMsgResources = new Messages(myResources);
String message = myMsgResources.getMessage(locale, "foo.key", args);

But there are some things which should get improved wrt Messages:

* include all parametric replacement options like in Struts
MessageResources (not only arg0 and [] args)
* the order of locale and key is reversed compared to Resources, it's
(locale, key); Resources is (key, locale)
* MessageFormat isn't cached as it is in Struts MessageResources
* setLocale isn't called on the used MessageFormat instances
* the TimeZone parameter isn't used like in the rest of
commons-resources

If nobody objects I'll whip up patches for the above points.

Greetings,


                        Christian

--
Christian Meder, email: [hidden email]

The Way-Seeking Mind of a tenzo is actualized
by rolling up your sleeves.

                (Eihei Dogen Zenji)

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Re: [resources] 1.0.0 Release Candidate 1

Christian Meder
On Mon, 2005-11-28 at 21:43 +0100, Christian Meder wrote:

> On Mon, 2005-11-28 at 03:00 +0000, Niall Pemberton wrote:
> > On 11/28/05, Craig McClanahan <[hidden email]> wrote:
> > > On 11/27/05, Niall Pemberton <[hidden email]> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > A couple of questions I had on the resources API:
> > > >
> > > > 1) I was wondering why TimeZone is include in the Resources's content
> > > > read methods? Is there a use case, for example, for giving west coast
> > > > Americans a different message to east coast?
> > >
> > >
> > > Some of the format options for displaying times take a time zone parameter
> > > (so that it can be included in the emitted string).  Simply pass null if it
> > > doesn't matter to you.
> >
> > I don't see any valid formats specified in java.text.MessageFormat
> > that take a TimeZone. Thats slightly irrelevant though since AFAIK
> > Commons Resources doesn't deal anywhere with message formats. My
> > understanding that happends after the resource has been retrieved,
> > something like....
> >
> >     String msgResource = myResources.getString("foo.key", locale, null);
> >     MessageFormat msgFormat = new MessageFormat(msgResource);
> >     msgFormat.setLocale(locale);
> >     String message = msgFormat.format(args);
> >
> > Have I got the wrong end of the stick on this? Struts MessageResources
> > does do the MessageFormat bit, but Commons Resources doesn't.
>
> Actually I just nuked my reply (still stuck on my laptop) which
> reiterated my concern from my mail a couple of days that
> MessageResources and the MessageFormat stuff is missing like you did.
> But I guess I found it: it's in Messages.
>
> So I guess it should be more along the line:
>
> Messages myMsgResources = new Messages(myResources);
> String message = myMsgResources.getMessage(locale, "foo.key", args);
>
> But there are some things which should get improved wrt Messages:
>
> * include all parametric replacement options like in Struts
> MessageResources (not only arg0 and [] args)

Following up to myself:

I just found the following in the log for Messages:


r142735 | dgraham | 2003-10-02 02:24:13 +0200 (Thu, 02 Oct 2003) | 8
lines
Changed paths:

M /jakarta/commons/proper/resources/trunk/src/java/org/apache/commons/resources/Messages.java

M /jakarta/commons/proper/resources/trunk/src/test/org/apache/commons/resources/MessagesTestCase.java

Removed Messages methods that provided 2-4 replacement
arguments that were carried over from Struts.  This makes
the interface easier to understand and the implementation
simpler.  The methods that are left provide for 0, 1, or an
array of replacement arguments.

I happen to disagree with the reasoning but I wanted to put this up for
discussion.


> * the order of locale and key is reversed compared to Resources, it's
> (locale, key); Resources is (key, locale)
> * MessageFormat isn't cached as it is in Struts MessageResources
> * setLocale isn't called on the used MessageFormat instances
> * the TimeZone parameter isn't used like in the rest of
> commons-resources
>
> If nobody objects I'll whip up patches for the above points.
>
> Greetings,
>
>
> Christian
>
--
Christian Meder, email: [hidden email]

The Way-Seeking Mind of a tenzo is actualized
by rolling up your sleeves.

                (Eihei Dogen Zenji)

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Re: [resources] 1.0.0 Release Candidate 1

Rahul Akolkar
In reply to this post by Niall Pemberton-2
On 11/27/05, Niall Pemberton <[hidden email]> wrote:
> Release Candidate 1 of Resources 1.0.0 is now available for download at:
> http://people.apache.org/~niallp/commons-resources/
>
> The web site has been refreshed with the latest changes:
> http://jakarta.apache.org/commons/resources/
>
> All feedback on this release candidate build is welcome.
>
<snip/>

Thanks Niall, I began rummaging through the code and I have a few
comments in Bugzilla. I would have preferred to post these before RC1,
had I been available over the last week.

After posting those I realize if you decide to apply both 37675 [1]
and 37679 [2], one will cause the other to become stale. Just ping the
appropriate ticket for a fresh patch in that case.

It might be worthwhile looking at the serializablity contracts in
[resources]. I don't know if there is interest.

-Rahul

[1] http://issues.apache.org/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=37675
[2] http://issues.apache.org/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=37679




> Niall
>
>

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Re: [resources] 1.0.0 Release Candidate 1

Niall Pemberton
In reply to this post by Christian Meder
On 11/28/05, Christian Meder <[hidden email]> wrote:

> On Mon, 2005-11-28 at 21:43 +0100, Christian Meder wrote:
> > On Mon, 2005-11-28 at 03:00 +0000, Niall Pemberton wrote:
> > > On 11/28/05, Craig McClanahan <[hidden email]> wrote:
> > > > On 11/27/05, Niall Pemberton <[hidden email]> wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > A couple of questions I had on the resources API:
> > > > >
> > > > > 1) I was wondering why TimeZone is include in the Resources's content
> > > > > read methods? Is there a use case, for example, for giving west coast
> > > > > Americans a different message to east coast?
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Some of the format options for displaying times take a time zone parameter
> > > > (so that it can be included in the emitted string).  Simply pass null if it
> > > > doesn't matter to you.
> > >
> > > I don't see any valid formats specified in java.text.MessageFormat
> > > that take a TimeZone. Thats slightly irrelevant though since AFAIK
> > > Commons Resources doesn't deal anywhere with message formats. My
> > > understanding that happends after the resource has been retrieved,
> > > something like....
> > >
> > >     String msgResource = myResources.getString("foo.key", locale, null);
> > >     MessageFormat msgFormat = new MessageFormat(msgResource);
> > >     msgFormat.setLocale(locale);
> > >     String message = msgFormat.format(args);
> > >
> > > Have I got the wrong end of the stick on this? Struts MessageResources
> > > does do the MessageFormat bit, but Commons Resources doesn't.
> >
> > Actually I just nuked my reply (still stuck on my laptop) which
> > reiterated my concern from my mail a couple of days that
> > MessageResources and the MessageFormat stuff is missing like you did.
> > But I guess I found it: it's in Messages.
> >
> > So I guess it should be more along the line:
> >
> > Messages myMsgResources = new Messages(myResources);
> > String message = myMsgResources.getMessage(locale, "foo.key", args);
> >
> > But there are some things which should get improved wrt Messages:
> >
> > * include all parametric replacement options like in Struts
> > MessageResources (not only arg0 and [] args)
>
> Following up to myself:
>
> I just found the following in the log for Messages:
>
>
> r142735 | dgraham | 2003-10-02 02:24:13 +0200 (Thu, 02 Oct 2003) | 8
> lines
> Changed paths:
>
> M /jakarta/commons/proper/resources/trunk/src/java/org/apache/commons/resources/Messages.java
>
> M /jakarta/commons/proper/resources/trunk/src/test/org/apache/commons/resources/MessagesTestCase.java
>
> Removed Messages methods that provided 2-4 replacement
> arguments that were carried over from Struts.  This makes
> the interface easier to understand and the implementation
> simpler.  The methods that are left provide for 0, 1, or an
> array of replacement arguments.
>
> I happen to disagree with the reasoning but I wanted to put this up for
> discussion.

Sorry I didn't respond to your earlier post, don't seem to have enough
hours in the day.

My view is the simpler the better, especially as Messages can be
easily extended to include these additional methods.

> > * the order of locale and key is reversed compared to Resources, it's
> > (locale, key); Resources is (key, locale)

Good point, I agree it should be consistent.

> > * MessageFormat isn't cached as it is in Struts MessageResources

The problem with formats is that they are not thread safe, so caching
them means you need to synchronize the cache. I don't know whether
caching provides any benefit because of that. Also if we set the
Locale as you suggest below, then we would have to cache formats by
locale.

> > * setLocale isn't called on the used MessageFormat instances

I agree we should do this.

> > * the TimeZone parameter isn't used like in the rest of
> > commons-resources

I'm don't know how it could be - and was one of my original questions.

> > If nobody objects I'll whip up patches for the above points.

Dam, I had just got resources down to zero open bugs ;-)

Niall

> > Greetings,
> >
> >
> >                       Christian

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Re: [resources] 1.0.0 Release Candidate 1

Niall Pemberton
In reply to this post by Rahul Akolkar
On 11/29/05, Rahul Akolkar <[hidden email]> wrote:

> On 11/27/05, Niall Pemberton <[hidden email]> wrote:
> > Release Candidate 1 of Resources 1.0.0 is now available for download at:
> > http://people.apache.org/~niallp/commons-resources/
> >
> > The web site has been refreshed with the latest changes:
> > http://jakarta.apache.org/commons/resources/
> >
> > All feedback on this release candidate build is welcome.
> >
> <snip/>
>
> Thanks Niall, I began rummaging through the code and I have a few
> comments in Bugzilla. I would have preferred to post these before RC1,
> had I been available over the last week.

Doesn't matter, Its not a problem to leave RC1 and move on. Its better
to delay and get it right before a release - especially the first -
and I'm not convinced the API is right yet.

> After posting those I realize if you decide to apply both 37675 [1]
> and 37679 [2], one will cause the other to become stale. Just ping the
> appropriate ticket for a fresh patch in that case.
>
> It might be worthwhile looking at the serializablity contracts in
> [resources]. I don't know if there is interest.

Maybe, depends what you come up with :-)

> -Rahul
>
> [1] http://issues.apache.org/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=37675
> [2] http://issues.apache.org/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=37679
>

Niall

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Re: 1.0.0 Release Candidate 1

Christian Meder
In reply to this post by Niall Pemberton
On Tue, 2005-11-29 at 01:59 +0000, Niall Pemberton wrote:

> On 11/28/05, Christian Meder <[hidden email]> wrote:
> > On Mon, 2005-11-28 at 21:43 +0100, Christian Meder wrote:
> > > On Mon, 2005-11-28 at 03:00 +0000, Niall Pemberton wrote:
> > > > On 11/28/05, Craig McClanahan <[hidden email]> wrote:
> > > > > On 11/27/05, Niall Pemberton <[hidden email]> wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > A couple of questions I had on the resources API:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > 1) I was wondering why TimeZone is include in the Resources's content
> > > > > > read methods? Is there a use case, for example, for giving west coast
> > > > > > Americans a different message to east coast?
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Some of the format options for displaying times take a time zone parameter
> > > > > (so that it can be included in the emitted string).  Simply pass null if it
> > > > > doesn't matter to you.
> > > >
> > > > I don't see any valid formats specified in java.text.MessageFormat
> > > > that take a TimeZone. Thats slightly irrelevant though since AFAIK
> > > > Commons Resources doesn't deal anywhere with message formats. My
> > > > understanding that happends after the resource has been retrieved,
> > > > something like....
> > > >
> > > >     String msgResource = myResources.getString("foo.key", locale, null);
> > > >     MessageFormat msgFormat = new MessageFormat(msgResource);
> > > >     msgFormat.setLocale(locale);
> > > >     String message = msgFormat.format(args);
> > > >
> > > > Have I got the wrong end of the stick on this? Struts MessageResources
> > > > does do the MessageFormat bit, but Commons Resources doesn't.
> > >
> > > Actually I just nuked my reply (still stuck on my laptop) which
> > > reiterated my concern from my mail a couple of days that
> > > MessageResources and the MessageFormat stuff is missing like you did.
> > > But I guess I found it: it's in Messages.
> > >
> > > So I guess it should be more along the line:
> > >
> > > Messages myMsgResources = new Messages(myResources);
> > > String message = myMsgResources.getMessage(locale, "foo.key", args);
> > >
> > > But there are some things which should get improved wrt Messages:
> > >
> > > * include all parametric replacement options like in Struts
> > > MessageResources (not only arg0 and [] args)
> >
> > Following up to myself:
> >
> > I just found the following in the log for Messages:
> >
> >
> > r142735 | dgraham | 2003-10-02 02:24:13 +0200 (Thu, 02 Oct 2003) | 8
> > lines
> > Changed paths:
> >
> > M /jakarta/commons/proper/resources/trunk/src/java/org/apache/commons/resources/Messages.java
> >
> > M /jakarta/commons/proper/resources/trunk/src/test/org/apache/commons/resources/MessagesTestCase.java
> >
> > Removed Messages methods that provided 2-4 replacement
> > arguments that were carried over from Struts.  This makes
> > the interface easier to understand and the implementation
> > simpler.  The methods that are left provide for 0, 1, or an
> > array of replacement arguments.
> >
> > I happen to disagree with the reasoning but I wanted to put this up for
> > discussion.
>
> Sorry I didn't respond to your earlier post, don't seem to have enough
> hours in the day.

You surely seem to have more hours in the day than me ;-)

> My view is the simpler the better, especially as Messages can be
> easily extended to include these additional methods.

Ok. So this part of the API will stay the same.

> > > * the order of locale and key is reversed compared to Resources, it's
> > > (locale, key); Resources is (key, locale)
>
> Good point, I agree it should be consistent.

Ok. Patch submitted. If you include the patch I will correct the user
guide in the wiki as well.

> > > * MessageFormat isn't cached as it is in Struts MessageResources
>
> The problem with formats is that they are not thread safe, so caching
> them means you need to synchronize the cache. I don't know whether
> caching provides any benefit because of that. Also if we set the
> Locale as you suggest below, then we would have to cache formats by
> locale.

I've got no strong opinions on the caching. Struts includes it and
there's a TODO in Messages. Did anybody produce performance numbers wrt
the Struts formats cache ?

>
> > > * setLocale isn't called on the used MessageFormat instances
>
> I agree we should do this.

Ok. Patch submitted.

>
> > > * the TimeZone parameter isn't used like in the rest of
> > > commons-resources
>
> I'm don't know how it could be - and was one of my original questions.

Looking at MessageFormat I don't see an interesting TimeZone use case
either. Perhaps Craig can explain which use cases he had specifically in
mind when added the TimeZone parameter ?

>
> > > If nobody objects I'll whip up patches for the above points.
>
> Dam, I had just got resources down to zero open bugs ;-)

Always glad to help ;-)


                        Christian

--
Christian Meder, email: [hidden email]

The Way-Seeking Mind of a tenzo is actualized
by rolling up your sleeves.

                (Eihei Dogen Zenji)

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Re: 1.0.0 Release Candidate 1

Niall Pemberton
On 11/29/05, Christian Meder <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> Always glad to help ;-)
>

Thanks, I have a busy time coming up so it may be a week or two before
I get back to doing any more on resources and looking at the recent
bug tickets that have been recorded.

Niall

>
>                        Christian

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Re: 1.0.0 Release Candidate 1

Rahul Akolkar
In reply to this post by Niall Pemberton
On 11/28/05, Niall Pemberton <[hidden email]> wrote:
> On 11/29/05, Rahul Akolkar <[hidden email]> wrote:
<snip/>
> >
> > It might be worthwhile looking at the serializablity contracts in
> > [resources]. I don't know if there is interest.
>
> Maybe, depends what you come up with :-)
>
<snap/>

OK, unless someone beats me to it, I'll take a stab next week. Seems
appropriate to do that since serializability is the second bullet on
the [resources] web page.

Which reminds me of another conversation related to serializability I
had hinted at initiating a while ago, but I need to switch lists for
that :-)

-Rahul

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Re: [resources] 1.0.0 Release Candidate 1

Wendy Smoak
In reply to this post by Niall Pemberton-2
On 11/27/05, Niall Pemberton <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Release Candidate 1 of Resources 1.0.0 is now available for download at:
> http://people.apache.org/~niallp/commons-resources/

Can someone please put the release candidate in the internal Maven repo?
   http://cvs.apache.org/repository/commons-resources/jars/

I'd like to switch the Struts Extras build over to RC1.

Thanks,
--
Wendy

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